Phosphate creep

[Lavey29]

So my phosphate has been creeping up. .41 yesterday. I typically use phosguard to keep it in check but might have to use some GFO now to bring it down. However, the tank is booming right now with coral growth and color. I know the potential of algae is increasing but I'm really wondering if I should let it ride and not chase numbers or default to what the proven best standard is for phosphate and bring it back down below .1. My alk is 8.3 on Hanna and nitrates 11. ICP showed my alk at 7.6 so different then the Hanna tester. Sand has been getting whiter too. I know each tank is unique but wonder if I will shoot myself in the foot just letting the phosphate do its thing. I feed frozen, have an oversize skimmer and fuge with huge chaeto. I dose reef actif and PNS probio once a week to prevent organic waste. 20% water change every 3 weeks and dose trace weekly along with alk and cal dose daily.

Anyone really not concerned with their phosphate number?

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

U can try to use media but I have used brightwell phosphate e w good results. Just dose small amount and test. Got me from .2 to like .05 in a week or so. No ill effects.

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

Like u I just go by looks of the system.

 

[Lavey29]

Like u I just go by looks of the system.

Everything looks perfect but that phosphate number makes me think I'll wake up one morning to a GHA jungle.

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

Everything looks perfect but that phosphate number makes me think I'll wake up one morning to a GHA jungle.

U can slowly knock it down over time w phosphate e.

 

[Lavey29]

U can slowly knock it down over time w phosphate e.

I'll check it out. I'm sure it's similar to what phosguard does too. I'm curious why the creep up now since nothing has changed? Used to always stay down around. 1. Wonder what is causing it to increase now?

 

[Fishy888]

I'll check it out. I'm sure it's similar to what phosguard does too. I'm curious why the creep up now since nothing has changed? Used to always stay down around. 1. Wonder what is causing it to increase now?

Have you changed food brands lately? If so it’s possible that there are more phosphates in that food. CUC deaths could have caused it too. Phosphate-e is good stuff. I dilute it and let it drip overnight.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

I tried the phosphate e, I ended up having better luck with GFO. Was running between .4 - .6 phosphate. Everything was doing ok (softies & zoa's). I got the phosphate to under .25 and now use a 1/4 dose to maintain it.

 

[Lavey29]

Have you changed food brands lately? If so it’s possible that there are more phosphates in that food. CUC deaths could have caused it too. Phosphate-e is good stuff. I dilute it and let it drip overnight.

Great point, I've had a couple small snail losses the past 2 weeks but nothing changed in food.

 

[Fishy888]

Great point, I've had a couple small snail losses the past 2 weeks but nothing changed in food.

You’d be shocked how much CUC deaths, especially meaty creatures like snails, can raise nitrates and phosphates. 0.4 ppm phosphates aren’t great but they’re not super high either. If you have phosphate-e or similar you can drop phosphates by 0.08 ppm a day safely. I don’t recommend chasing numbers but when things are well outside the normal range they need to be put back in check. 3 doses should be good to get you to 0.16 ppm.

 

[Lavey29]

You’d be shocked how much CUC deaths, especially meaty creatures like snails, can raise nitrates and phosphates. 0.4 ppm phosphates aren’t great but they’re not super high either. If you have phosphate-e or similar you can drop phosphates by 0.08 ppm a day safely. I don’t recommend chasing numbers but when things are well outside the normal range they need to be put back in check. 3 doses should be good to get you to 0.16 ppm.

I normally remove snails before they decay. I'm sure I can bring the phosphate down but my tank looks perfect. Corals are flourishing which makes me wonder if I should bring it down or see if it stabilizes in the .3 to .4 range and leave it be.

I've just started this reef actif dose a month ago. It is supposed to do something to phosphate in the tank to make it even more appetizing to corals and easier for them to intake it. I wonder if that is causing the increase temporarily and once the corals start using it more it comes down?

Anyone with experience with reef actif?

 

[Fishy888]

You’d be shocked how much CUC deaths, especially meaty creatures like snails, can raise nitrates and phosphates. 0.4 ppm phosphates aren’t great but they’re not super high either. If you have phosphate-e or similar you can drop phosphates by 0.08 ppm a day safely. I don’t recommend chasing numbers but when things are well outside the normal range they need to be put back in check. 3 doses should be good to get you to 0.16 ppm.

I forgot to mention that you only want to do one dose per day. You probably know that already but for the sake of others who may be reading this thread; you don’t want to shock your system.

 

[Lavey29]

You’d be shocked how much CUC deaths, especially meaty creatures like snails, can raise nitrates and phosphates. 0.4 ppm phosphates aren’t great but they’re not super high either. If you have phosphate-e or similar you can drop phosphates by 0.08 ppm a day safely. I don’t recommend chasing numbers but when things are well outside the normal range they need to be put back in check. 3 doses should be good to get you to 0.16 ppm.

Plus I usually smell a dead snail before I even see it in the tank or sump.

 

[Miami Reef]

If you were to have an algae bloom, 0.1ppm makes no difference that .5ppm. Algae is being limited by something else.

There is more to algae than just phosphate concentration. Look into “Liebig's law of the minimum.“ That explains this phenomenon.

Don’t worry about waking up one day to an algae bloom from your scenario .

 

[Fishy888]

I normally remove snails before they decay. I'm sure I can bring the phosphate down but my tank looks perfect. Corals are flourishing which makes me wonder if I should bring it down or see if it stabilizes in the .3 to .4 range and leave it be.

I've just started this reef actif dose a month ago. It is supposed to do something to phosphate in the tank to make it even more appetizing to corals and easier for them to intake it. I wonder if that is causing the increase temporarily and once the corals start using it more it comes down?

Anyone with experience with reef actif?

I have heard of tanks that run quite well at 0.5 and higher. You could monitor it and see where phosphates go. They might just stabilize where they are. If signs of an algae outbreak were to occur you’d have a treatment method ready. Stability > numbers.

 

[Fishy888]

If you were to have an algae bloom, 0.1ppm makes no difference that .5ppm. Algae is being limited by something else.

There is more to algae than just phosphate concentration. Look into “Liebig's law of the minimum.“ That explains this phenomenon.

Don’t worry about waking up one day to an algae bloom from your scenario .

Actually 0.1 is 20% of 0.5. Three doses at 0.08 over three days will drop his phosphates by 0.24 ppm. He has 0.4 ppm now. That’ll put him at 0.16 after 3 doses. 0.1 ppm would be 25% of 0.4 ppm.

If he has enough coral the zooxanthellae within them will pull in tons of phosphates. IIRC he has plenty of SPS. I bet they’re growing like weeds.

 

[Fishy888]

I guess my point is that if I had a tank with only a few corals I’d want my phosphates at 0.05 ppm to 0.1 ppm.

If I had a tank chock full of healthy SPS growing like weeds I’d be comfortable at 0.2 ppm to 0.5 ppm. There are tanks that belong in magazines that run at 1 ppm and higher and have no signs of any algae other than coralline.

In the end it pays to know your tank. If it’s working like a well oiled machine then let it do its thing. I personally doubt you’ll have algae issues in your case but I wanted to give you the dosing method I used when I was at 1 ppm. Taking my phosphates down by 0.08 ppm per day it took me about 2 weeks give or take and there was no shock to the system.

When things are out of whack then we need to get them back into a range. If your system is full of GHA and the like it probably means you need to get your numbers in check. The recommended ranges are guidance, nothing more. Your tank is healthy and awesome. Every tank is different so the range they need will be different. That’s why number chasing isn’t a good idea. Stability chasing is what we need to practice. This is a lesson I’ve learned the hard way more than once. I still find myself doing that every now and again but not nearly as much as in the beginning of my reefing career.

 

[Lavey29]

I have heard of tanks that run quite well at 0.5 and higher. You could monitor it and see where phosphates go. They might just stabilize where they are. If signs of an algae outbreak were to occur you’d have a treatment method ready. Stability > numbers.

Yes I've heard of high nutrients tanks too but most of those are multi year well established ecosystems. Mine isn't even 2 years. I haven't seen my serpent star for 3 or 4 days. I wonder if he passed away or something under a rock.

 

[Lavey29]

I guess my point is that if I had a tank with only a few corals I’d want my phosphates at 0.05 ppm to 0.1 ppm.

If I had a tank chock full of healthy SPS growing like weeds I’d be comfortable at 0.2 ppm to 0.5 ppm. There are tanks that belong in magazines that run at 1 ppm and higher and have no signs of any algae other than coralline.

In the end it pays to know your tank. If it’s working like a well oiled machine then let it do its thing. I personally doubt you’ll have algae issues in your case but I wanted to give you the dosing method I used when I was at 1 ppm. Taking my phosphates down by 0.08 ppm per day it took me about 2 weeks give or take and there was no shock to the system.

When things are out of whack then we need to get them back into a range. If your system is full of GHA and the like it probably means you need to get your numbers in check. The recommended ranges are guidance, nothing more. Your tank is healthy and awesome. Every tank is different so the range they need will be different. That’s why number chasing isn’t a good idea. Stability chasing is what we need to practice. This is a lesson I’ve learned the hard way more than once. I still find myself doing that every now and again but not nearly as much as in the beginning of my reefing career.

Another well presented point. Yes, I've got probably 60 corals in the tank so I agree higher then normal nutrients levels probably is not a negative.

 

[Fishy888]

Another well presented point. Yes, I've got probably 60 corals in the tank so I agree higher then normal nutrients levels probably is not a negative.

That’s awesome. Now I have to read your build thread.