Phosphate help

[Aparker2005]

Hey everyone. I need to get a new reading, but I think a lot of my coral issues lately have absolutely been in part due to our phosphate levels, probably from slight over feeding trying to get our butterflies to eat (which I have gotten it to now thankfully).

Tank is a 125 mixed reef. We've lost quite a few corals lately, mostly our euphylia and a few Monti caps and green slimer. We also have one hammer and torch, plus quite a few other mixed corals that are sound great, so I'm totally confused.

Filtration on this tank is 3x Seachem tidal filters with mechanical pad, some ceramic rings, and chemi pure blue. Water changes of around 15 to 20 gallons done weekly.

Our nitrate levels were testing really high as well for a while which is what made me think the feeding was the issue (testing out of the normal between 40 and 80).

Last checked levels a week ago:

Salinity: 1.025
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 20-40
Ph - 7.4
Calcium: 380
Kh: 8 - 143.2
Phos : 1 - I can never get this down no matter what I try
Alk - 173

Any suggestions would be welcomed. Unfortunately I can't do a sump right now. Thanks!

 

[wet_rocks_reef]

You can certainly do a GFO reactor of some kind, or perhaps a HOB (Hang on Back) protein skimmer. How are you testing you PO4? What Coral issues are you seeing?

 

[TokenReefer]

You can certainly do a GFO reactor of some kind, or perhaps a HOB (Hang on Back) protein skimmer. How are you testing you PO4? What Coral issues are you seeing?

I second this; skimmers filter differently (sorry too tired to expound atm). Might make more of a dent. Also any filter media that stays in the system past saturation is just putting those nutrients back into the water. You'd have to change the filters so often probably to keep them from "leeching"... not worth it imo (to be fair I have don't know if the tidals work differently). For example on my own system, my numbers haven't been lower since I stopped with the filter socks. Filter rollers work differently as they remove from the water, like a skimmer does...

 

[Lavey29]

ok, so you have a high nutrient tank. What do you feed? Pellets and flakes will raise phosphate as well as nitrate. Frozen is better. What are your exports other then water changes? Your PH is quite low and your calcium is slightly low also. Do you feed coral additives like reef roids? These things cause phosphate to soar. Have you tried chemipure elite instead of chemipure blue?

Lastly, how are you corals and tank looking? Just because numbers are off does not mean your tank is doing bad.

 

[TokenReefer]

as well especially the food part

 

[Aparker2005]

You can certainly do a GFO reactor of some kind, or perhaps a HOB (Hang on Back) protein skimmer. How are you testing you PO4? What Coral issues are you seeing?

The only skimmer we have is what the tidals have (which I'm not sure even does much). Our Hannah tester said high reading, api gave us the 1.0 reading.

Coral issues
Euphylia got BJD and lost all but 3 - the torch and hammer left are doing great

Monticaps - browning and losing color

Green slimer turned brown.

 

[Aparker2005]

ok, so you have a high nutrient tank. What do you feed? Pellets and flakes will raise phosphate as well as nitrate. Frozen is better. What are your exports other then water changes? Your PH is quite low and your calcium is slightly low also. Do you feed coral additives like reef roids? These things cause phosphate to soar. Have you tried chemipure elite instead of chemipure blue?

Lastly, how are you corals and tank looking? Just because numbers are off does not mean your tank is doing bad.

We feed pellets, flake, and frozen. Usually light meals 2 to 3x per day. Nori and clams given for the butterfly. No exports other than water changes. I add Seachem Reef Plus once or twice per week. I have given 1 tsp of Reef roids when things weren't looking good.

Haven't tried elite vs blue, I thought for some reason blue was better.

Here's the tank - kinda hard to get a good shot

 

[Aparker2005]

I second this; skimmers filter differently (sorry too tired to expound atm). Might make more of a dent. Also any filter media that stays in the system past saturation is just putting those nutrients back into the water. You'd have to change the filters so often probably to keep them from "leeching"... not worth it imo (to be fair I have don't know if the tidals work differently). For example on my own system, my numbers haven't been lower since I stopped with the filter socks. Filter rollers work differently as they remove from the water, like a skimmer does...

I've always just went with the usual mechanical blue pad, some sort of bio, and now chemi pure. Should this be changed in all 3 for salt?

 

[TokenReefer]

I've always just went with the usual mechanical blue pad, some sort of bio, and now chemi pure. Should this be changed in all 3 for salt?

I went a little long winded there lol. Was just trying to comment on the differences in filtration. Skimmers "remove from" the water column; pads "keep in" the water column until YOU remove them from the water column...if that makes sense

 

[In the sticks]

Carbon dosing is a good option as well.

 

[In the sticks]

What kind of test kit are you using

 

[wet_rocks_reef]

The only skimmer we have is what the tidals have (which I'm not sure even does much). Our Hannah tester said high reading, api gave us the 1.0 reading.

Coral issues
Euphylia got BJD and lost all but 3 - the torch and hammer left are doing great

Monticaps - browning and losing color

Green slimer turned brown.

Ok, Surface skimming is different from a protein skimmer; bubbling up the water and exporting the foam and scum. this would remove the waste before it has time to breakdown in your tank. plus the added oxygen could have a benefit of raising your PH.

your are correct that high nutrients have the side effect of browning out SPS, Honestly your tank looks pretty good without a skimmer. Without a Skimmer you may have too many fish for the corals you desire (SPS).

also if you raise your salinity up to 1.026 you may see a higher level of Alk and CA

What ALK test kit are you using?

 

[Aparker2005]

Ok, Surface skimming is different from a protein skimmer; bubbling up the water and exporting the foam and scum. this would remove the waste before it has time to breakdown in your tank. plus the added oxygen could have a benefit of raising your PH.

your are correct that high nutrients have the side effect of browning out SPS, Honestly your tank looks pretty good without a skimmer. Without a Skimmer you may have too many fish for the corals you desire (SPS).

also if you raise your salinity up to 1.026 you may see a higher level of Alk and CA

What ALK test kit are you using?

Usually just the api. I think I have a Hannah one but it's a pain to use sometimes so I just go with the api lol. My wife usually runs the tests on the Hannahs

 

[Aparker2005]

And are there any decent hob skimmers?

 

[Aparker2005]

Here's a few of the corals I mentioned.

Green monticap browning (but our red is doing fine)

Green slimer browned

Calitort turning white

Ignore the aiptasia outbreak lol.

Yet other corals in the same areas are doing fine (red digis, rock flower nems, bubble coral, chalice, zoas, green and purple pocillopora)

 

[sczlars]

For my tank, dealing with nitrate and phosphates, I finally installed a sulfur denitrator to bring the nitrates under control, and started dosing Lanthanum (elimi-phos) slowly to get phosphate under control. I just couldn't do enough water changes etc.. I wish I had known about those two methods earlier, but the LFS said water changes, chemi-pure, etc.. Didn't make much of a dent in it. Now my phosphates are below 0.1, the rocks still leaching, but things are looking up. Nitrates at 10 and still falling . --Lars