Phosphates high but no algae and snails dying?

[Slocke]

Looking for some general advice. My nutrients have been high for a while but now it's only my phosphates. I haven't had any algae issues for a while and I credit that to my urchin and Mexican turbos. However recently my Mexicans have been dying. I'd never lost one but this week had one die and two are looking close. I recently added a massive refugium but was a bit slow adding a ATO.

78F
1.027 Sal (reducing it slowly)
11.2 Alk (too high?)
0.73 Phos
15 Nitrate
Lights are two AI Prime 16s and a 4' Fluval marine = 177W of LEDs all at full power for 12hrs.
Filtration is a combine skimmer, a fluval tidal, and a fluval FX6 canister
17 small fish - fed 3 cubes + flakes + nori

I moved the dying snails to the refugium. My first question is should I be worried or is this just a sign I'm doing too well against algae and some CUC losses are to be expected?

Next question is phosphate control? I'v been dosing NOPOX and of course the addition of the big refugium but phosphates are refusing to go down except for temporarily after a water change. I just added a bag of Clearmax I had. I suppose GFO?

Any other general advice appreciated.

 

[Dan_P]

Looking for some general advice. My nutrients have been high for a while but now it's only my phosphates. I haven't had any algae issues for a while and I credit that to my urchin and Mexican turbos. However recently my Mexicans have been dying. I'd never lost one but this week had one die and two are looking close. I recently added a massive refugium but was a bit slow adding a ATO.

78F
1.027 Sal (reducing it slowly)
11.2 Alk (too high?)
0.73 Phos
15 Nitrate
Lights are two AI Prime 16s and a 4' Fluval marine = 177W of LEDs all at full power for 12hrs.
Filtration is a combine skimmer, a fluval tidal, and a fluval FX6 canister
17 small fish - fed 3 cubes + flakes + nori

I moved the dying snails to the refugium. My first question is should I be worried or is this just a sign I'm doing too well against algae and some CUC losses are to be expected?

Next question is phosphate control? I'v been dosing NOPOX and of course the addition of the big refugium but phosphates are refusing to go down except for temporarily after a water change. I just added a bag of Clearmax I had. I suppose GFO?

Any other general advice appreciated.

Snails need regular meals.

 

[Slocke]

Snails need regular meals.

Thanks that’s part of the question though. How do I feed snails and urchin especially when I have algae eating fish?

 

[Dan_P]

Thanks that’s part of the question though. How do I feed snails and urchin especially when I have algae eating fish?

Tricky.

One thought: snails and urchins feed at night. Fish typically go to sleep. Add some sort of algae feeding station after lights out. Rubber band dried algae to a rock thats placed in at night and pulled out in the morning. You’ll need to be creative to match the need for feeding to your schedule. I rubber band a quarter sheet of dried seaweed to a piece of glass and drop it in. I found plastic mesh with 1/2 inch holes cut out rubberbanded over the seaweed helps it stay in place.

 

[ReefDreamz]

First thing I'd do is send in an ICP test to see if you have any metals in the water that may be contributing to the snail death. I like ATI ICP tests because they test a sample of your RODI water as well as your tank water. In the meantime I'd just keep doing what your doing. If NOPOX isn't reducing PO4, I'd first make sure your PO4 test kit is accurate, maybe buy a second test kit to check. You could also try running some rowaphos in a media bag to reduce PO4. If the snails are dead take them out of the refugium, they will just add more nutrients to your system as the decay. FWIW I also had not much algae and added two mexican turbos and both died within a week meanwhile my astreas and trochus are fine.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Tricky.

One thought: snails and urchins feed at night. Fish typically go to sleep. Add some sort of algae feeding station after lights out. Rubber band dried algae to a rock thats placed in at night and pulled out in the morning. You’ll need to be creative to match the need for feeding to your schedule. I rubber band a quarter sheet of dried seaweed to a piece of glass and drop it in. I found plastic mesh with 1/2 inch holes cut out rubberbanded over the seaweed helps it stay in place.

Just to add, I've heard of people doing similar things to this using algae pellets too.

 

[Slocke]

Tricky.

One thought: snails and urchins feed at night. Fish typically go to sleep. Add some sort of algae feeding station after lights out. Rubber band dried algae to a rock thats placed in at night and pulled out in the morning. You’ll need to be creative to match the need for feeding to your schedule. I rubber band a quarter sheet of dried seaweed to a piece of glass and drop it in. I found plastic mesh with 1/2 inch holes cut out rubberbanded over the seaweed helps it stay in place.

Just to add, I've heard of people doing similar things to this using algae pellets too.

Thanks I will try that. I guess I could also try and collect them and add to refugium. I assume they'll eat caulerpa and cheato?

I do a ton of research and from what I hear people seem to tell me that I need like a snail per gallon and low nutrients or else I'll get tons of algae. I've got nowhere near that amount of snails and high nutrients. Apart from patches on my pump return a few other places the only algae I have is Coraline. Guess I shouldn't complain but it would be nice to know why. My only guess is that its because Mexican turbos are too good.

 

[Slocke]

First thing I'd do is send in an ICP test to see if you have any metals in the water that may be contributing to the snail death. I like ATI ICP tests because they test a sample of your RODI water as well as your tank water. In the meantime I'd just keep doing what your doing. If NOPOX isn't reducing PO4, I'd first make sure your PO4 test kit is accurate, maybe buy a second test kit to check. You could also try running some rowaphos in a media bag to reduce PO4. If the snails are dead take them out of the refugium, they will just add more nutrients to your system as the decay. FWIW I also had not much algae and added two mexican turbos and both died within a week meanwhile my astreas and trochus are fine.

Thanks. I've always considered an ICP but never gone through with it. I think what I'm finding strange is I've had these snails for months and with the exception of a cyano outbreak never seen more than a couple patches of nuisance algae. Then suddenly they start dropping like flies. The one that died first was eaten overnight despite being squash ball sized.

I double checked and my PO4 looks the same at about 0.7 but my nitrates are really low. I started dosing NOPOX at about 0.79 and my nitrates were probably 30 or 40. One bottle down and almost no change on PO4. Now I'm worried about too low nitrate.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Your tank doesn't get film algae on the glass every 2-3 days?

 

[Slocke]

Your tank doesn't get film algae on the glass every 2-3 days?

Nope. I get Coraline both the purple and the green (is that Coraline? its as tough as the purple Coraline). I did get film early on but not for months now.

 

[Dan_P]

Thanks I will try that. I guess I could also try and collect them and add to refugium. I assume they'll eat caulerpa and cheato?

I do a ton of research and from what I hear people seem to tell me that I need like a snail per gallon and low nutrients or else I'll get tons of algae. I've got nowhere near that amount of snails and high nutrients. Apart from patches on my pump return a few other places the only algae I have is Coraline. Guess I shouldn't complain but it would be nice to know why. My only guess is that its because Mexican turbos are too good.

I bet the research did not find anything about treating your clean up crew humanely by feeding them and that new aquaria are deserts when it comes to food availability

There is all sorts of advice on the internet and here on R2R that range from trustworthy to nonsense. Difficult to tell sometimes. Advice on clean up crews sometimes plays like a broken record and nobody stops to ask where did this advice come from, what is the reasoning behind it or did invert vendors just make it up to sell stuff.

 

[Slocke]

I bet the research did not find anything about treating your clean up crew humanely by feeding them and that new aquaria are deserts when it comes to food availability

There is all sorts of advice on the internet and here on R2R that range from trustworthy to nonsense. Difficult to tell sometimes. Advice on clean up crews sometimes plays like a broken record and nobody stops to ask where did this advice come from, what is the reasoning behind it or did invert vendors just make it up to sell stuff.

Yeah
Funny how they never mention the size of the snail either. A pencil eraser sized Cerith snail vs a squash ball sized Mexican turbo are a bit different I guess... Still never had this in the several months I've had them. I guess I Just finally reached the tipping point.

 

[Dan_P]

Yeah
Funny how they never mention the size of the snail either. A pencil eraser sized Cerith snail vs a squash ball sized Mexican turbo are a bit different I guess... Still never had this in the several months I've had them. I guess I Just finally reached the tipping point.

Forgot to mention that I have 16 Mexican turbos for about two years now. They are roughly plum size, one spawned and they can move rocks. Costs me about $15/month to feed them but I did invite to live with me

 

[Greengirl]

I'm somewhat new at this marine tank business and unusual in trying to have a monoculture of either Caulerpa or Halimeda (2 tanks) and whatever hitchhikers came along. I've been struggling against purple stringy (hair algae?) and brown fluffy algae accumulations on everything. I got some ceriths, a couple of bumble bee snails, and nerite snails (and a giant knobby creeper for fun). The smallest and most abundant of these (dwarf ceriths) are thriving but I've had a couple of losses of the nerites. Without fish I've had trouble keeping the nitrogen cycle constant. I have the live rock and a gentle circulating pump, but no other filter/refugeum etc. Mostly I'm using instant ocean and adding ammonia as necessary with occasional phosphate doping, and very occasionally iron or liquid carbon. Any ideas what the snails don't like??

 

[Slocke]

I'm somewhat new at this marine tank business and unusual in trying to have a monoculture of either Caulerpa or Halimeda (2 tanks) and whatever hitchhikers came along. I've been struggling against purple stringy (hair algae?) and brown fluffy algae accumulations on everything. I got some ceriths, a couple of bumble bee snails, and nerite snails (and a giant knobby creeper for fun). The smallest and most abundant of these (dwarf ceriths) are thriving but I've had a couple of losses of the nerites. Without fish I've had trouble keeping the nitrogen cycle constant. I have the live rock and a gentle circulating pump, but no other filter/refugeum etc. Mostly I'm using instant ocean and adding ammonia as necessary with occasional phosphate doping, and very occasionally iron or liquid carbon. Any ideas what the snails don't like??

First I think this is worthy of its own thread so you may want to copy and paste it there.

However I can try to help. What do you mean by "I've had trouble keeping the nitrogen cycle constant"?