Please chime in everyone! Looking for feedback from all!

[zmanjr11]

Hey Reefers-

I'm looking to get as much input into this as possible, ideally from all sides! Mods, please help/feel free to post this where it's going to get the most traction if needed!

After going through another incredibly sad experience, speaking with some of my fellow reefers who are having the same types of experiences, I'm reaching out to the community as a whole, maybe to get some change and common ground...so here goes...

I'm noticing an increasingly concerning trend while purchasing corals thats becoming more and more problematic and, I believe, dangerous for our hobby as a whole. Times are tough, we all know that, and that goes for individuals and businesses as well. My observations go along the lines of this (I wont name any agencies but I have done business with just about everyone at this point and it is not 1-2 places): a coral order is placed, order arrives (noticing more and more shipping company delays as well) and looks...not ideal. So we document (personally I send videos of my unboxing and bags to the seller), and either there is "nothing that can be done" or there is credit given to store (fine) but shipping is not covered. This level of nickel and diming is absolutely KILLER for my ability to enjoy this hobby and, imo, killing my interest to continue buying.

My first idea is this: come up with an acceptable "rule of thumb" for buyers and sellers in terms of purchasing and selling guidelines. I can whole heartedly get behind the "proof within 2-3 hours of delivery". Sometimes, I'm at work and this is a PITA but I get it. You cant have your corals and livestock sitting on the porch all day and just expect things to go swimmingly. So if that is going to be honored and provided, I do also thing however that there should be a 24-48 hour window of monitoring to make sure that things dont take a turn. Again, im seeing more and more corals not make it past this window and that is unacceptable. Its incredibly fair and logical to first try and problem solve: whats your measurements, etc. Some of you have seen my tank: My reef is thriving. At the same time, I ALSO don't believe it's best practice to not adhere to the window and a week later message the seller and claim that something is wrong and demand a refund with no prior documentation- it could be SO many things at that point, I think we all can agree.

So this is where I'm asking this community to come together for the betterment of our community on the whole....lets work to fix these types of situations. Latest story to follow:

Purchase from sellers (who shall remain nameless)
Before shipping, seller discloses that one coral is hurting and didnt make it. Agree to send replacement
Document within 15 mins of delivery that there appears to be an issue.
Continue taking pictures and videos. Treat as needed and recommended.
Corals die. Seller requires new purchase with credit AND shipping paid again
New Corals arrive but half the shipment is missing and corals look VERY sick.

Recap, I get none of the original corals that I ordered, replacements look sick, one is dead within one week with extensive documentation daily with no replacement or refund, shipping paid more than once for one order, etc.

Round and round we go. You can see how this can't be the standard. Let's work to collectively be better. I can't wait to read input from everyone and lets make sure that we keep it civil and healthy mates!

Cheers

 

[nautical_nathaniel]

There is a vendor feedback section for these types of things. Put a bad vendor on blast and they'll either fix their ways or they won't be dealing much longer.

I've been in the hobby long enough to have seen my fair share of bad actors and I've got to say some of these tiktok/whatnot dealers make me want to stay away from them just based on the way they talk about their corals like they're trading cards or something.

My own brother orders their corals and they come in beat up or half dead and he still goes back because it appears to be a deal, but in the end you get what you pay for and I'd rather pay a bit more for corals from a reputable seller with healthy corals who knows how to check the weather before shipping.

 

[zmanjr11]

There is a vendor feedback section for these types of things. Put a bad vendor on blast and they'll either fix their ways or they won't be dealing much longer.

I've been in the hobby long enough to have seen my fair share of bad actors and I've got to say some of these tiktok/whatnot dealers make me want to stay away from them just based on the way they talk about their corals like they're trading cards or something.

My own brother orders their corals and they come in beat up or half dead and he still goes back because it appears to be a deal, but in the end you get what you pay for and I'd rather pay a bit more for corals from a reputable seller with healthy corals who knows how to check the weather before shipping.

Thank you for some input here @nautical_nathaniel !

Unfortunately- these are vendors with reputations within the community and thankfully not the social media crowd, but thats a wonderful point nonetheless and this its an important contribution.

At this moment, im not motivated by putting someone on blast, though am not opposed to it...however, I think on the whole I would just like to hear from the community on the whole on what we can collectively do to try and help/fix this type of dynamic. Keep it coming everyone!

 

[DmitryB]

I totally get what you're saying. The 2 or so hrs window is really not realistic to gauge the health of an animal. That's just reality. I recently got a coral from a company I've gotten lots of awesome stuff from. Like them a lot! One SPS arrived with two branches - one of which was dead. I immediately sent a photo and they just said to snip it off. Ok, but it's not the coral I purchased anymore and I don't know if it'll survive long term since it arrived sick! Quite the conundrum.

Another recent order arrived with an SPS broken into 3 (!) pieces! Don't know how that even happens. The company said to just glue them to a rock! Will I order from them again? Nope.

 

[zmanjr11]

I totally get what you're saying. The 2 or so hrs window is really not realistic to gauge the health of an animal. That's just reality. I recently got a coral from a company I've gotten lots of awesome stuff from. Like them a lot! One SPS arrived with two branches - one of which was dead. I immediately sent a photo and they just said to snip it off. Ok, but it's not the coral I purchased anymore and I don't know if it'll survive long term since it arrived sick! Quite the conundrum.

Another recent order arrived with an SPS broken into 3 (!) pieces! Don't know how that even happens. The company said to just glue them to a rock! Will I order fr them again? Nope.

"ok but its not the coral I purchased anymore and I dont know if it'll survive long term since it arrived sick"

 

[Sam7]

Thats why your best bet is to shop local and view it in person

 

[NeedAReef]

the fancier the name, the better the camera and photoshop skills the more they charge...I deal with locals mostly now because of it.

 

[maroun.c]

+1 for shopping from closeby shops or sellers and seing coral live before buying. We also have to realize that a percentage of losses 10% in shipping 20% in 6 weeks quarantine and another 10-20% in transition to DT (in my case ) is a fact if life in this hobby and a cost we have to live with. Throwing it back on the seller although fair to some reasonable extent is a double edged sword as that loss also increases their cost and they have to sell x more frags to recover a DOA which results in continuous higher pricing. Losses are a fact of life in this hobby we have to accept when in "normal" percentages IMHO.

 

[zmanjr11]

Thats why your best bet is to shop local and view it in person

I agree wholeheartedly! And, at the same time, there are plenty of people, myself included, who simply cannot due to geographical location (my closest LFS is almost 3 hours away).

 

[zmanjr11]

+1 for shopping from closeby shops or sellers and seing coral live before buying. We also have to realize that a percentage of losses 10% in shipping 20% in 6 weeks quarantine and another 10-20% in transition to DT (in my case ) is a fact if life in this hobby and a cost we have to live with. Throwing it back on the seller although fair to some reasonable extent is a double edged sword as that loss also increases their cost and they have to sell x more frags to recover a DOA which results in continuous higher pricing. Losses are a fact of life in this hobby we have to accept when in "normal" percentages IMHO.

I think that this is valuable information as well and appreciate a view point from the sellers side as well! I happen to agree that the points that you've made are crappy for the seller. Period. AND... I also wholeheartedly agree that passing it on to the seller cant be the solution. I so appreciate your contribution @maroun.c

 

[exnisstech]

Most have or should have their return doa etc policies listed on their site. If they don't have them visible or I don't agree with them I don't buy there. I'm not a fan of store credit and me paying shipping if something is wrong with something they sent. Shipping delays are what they are and no fault is sellers so I don't even hold that against them. The few times I've had problems have turned out to be sellers I would never deal with again so the last thing I want to have to do is spend more money with them. I had one vendor that tried to issue a store credit for a clam they didn't even ship. My CC company reversed the charge. One clam they did send arrived gaping and didn't last 24hrs. No refund or replacement received. Funny things is the clam they didn't ship and tried to keep the payment of was the most expensive item in the order.