Please clarify something about Cyanobacteria...

[Dom]

I've read many times that Cyanobacteria outbreaks are the result of the Cyano out-competing for the available nutrients in the tank.

What exactly is the Cyanobacteria out-competing?

 

[blaxsun]

Everything else that depends on the same nutrients.

 

[Dom]

Everything else that depends on the same nutrients.

Thats a bit vague. Can you be more specific?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I've read many times that Cyanobacteria outbreaks are the result of the Cyano out-competing for the available nutrients in the tank.

What exactly is the Cyanobacteria out-competing?

Nutrients
Generally when nitrate and phosphate are elevated, along with light becomes fuel/food for this bacterial algae to sustain itself

 

[ReefGeezer]

If I remember correctly, unlike algae, Cyano has the ability to use nitrogen and phosphate that are part of organic compounds. Usually, if Cyano is a problem, it means that there are not enough organisms and filtration in the tank to compete for those same dissolved organics. Corals, sponges, tube worms, other bacteria, skimmers, and GAC are some of the users of dissolved organic compounds. That's what the Cyano is out-competing. We can't rapidly increase corals, other bacteria, sponges and the like, but we can certainly limit dissolved organic compounds with water changes, more GAC , ad better skimming.

 

[Dom]

Nutrients
Generally when nitrate and phosphate are elevated, along with light becomes fuel/food for this bacterial algae to sustain itself

I'm wondering... of Cyano is out competing "something else", wouldn't supplementing "something else" correct the problem?

 

[Dom]

If I remember correctly, unlike algae, Cyano has the ability to use nitrogen and phosphate that are part of organic compounds. Usually, if Cyano is a problem, it means that there are not enough organisms and filtration in the tank to compete for those same dissolved organics. Corals, sponges, tube worms, other bacteria, skimmers, and GAC are some of the users of dissolved organic compounds. That's what the Cyano is out-competing. We can't rapidly increase corals, other bacteria, sponges and the like, but we can certainly limit dissolved organic compounds with water changes, more GAC , ad better skimming.

Ok... this makes sense to me. So if we can't add something to compete with the Cyanobacteria, the strategy is to remove what allows Cyanobacteria to thrive; correct?

 

[mindme]

Algae is what it's out competing it seems like to me.

Anytime I dose chemiclean I always get a bit more algae after. Likewise, the few times I dosed vibrant and killed the algae, I usually got some cyano after.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Ok... this makes sense to me. So if we can't add something to compete with the Cyanobacteria, the strategy is to remove what allows Cyanobacteria to thrive; correct?

Yes. Also... The cyano itself binds the nutrients it consumes in its tissue. Removing it exports the bound nutrients. Vacuum it out as often as possible.

 

[fish farmer]

From what I understand is cyano happens when you have poor water quality/low flow/excessive buildup of stuff.

For instance where I live we have cyano algae blooms on the beaches at certain times of the year, it is usually a factor of too much nutrient overloading certain beaches. The conditions are right for the bloom....you don't see the blooms throughout the year because the conditions aren't right for it to bloom.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Algae is what it's out competing it seems like to me.

Anytime I dose chemiclean I always get a bit more algae after. Likewise, the few times I dosed vibrant and killed the algae, I usually got some cyano after.

Yep. It's a cycle... cyano... chemiclean... algae... algaefix, vibrant, et al... Cyano... chemiclean... etc. It took me waaaayyy too long to learn this lesson.

 

[ReefGeezer]

From what I understand is cyano happens when you have poor water quality/low flow/excessive buildup of stuff.

"Stuff" = Dissolved Organics

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm wondering... of Cyano is out competing "something else", wouldn't supplementing "something else" correct the problem?

Add bacteria such as micro bacteria 7 and remove white light at minimum

 

[ReefGeezer]

Add bacteria such as micro bacteria 7 and remove white light at minimum

Turning all the lights out for a few days can help also. It seem like you just need to break the cycle and it goes away. My go-to process has been:
1) Vacuum out Cyano after the lights have been on all day;
2) Do a big water change;
3) Add a bunch of GAC & set the skimmer to skim very wet; and
4) Turn off the lights and don't feed for 3 days.

Usually works. Sometimes has to be repeated a couple of times.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've read many times that Cyanobacteria outbreaks are the result of the Cyano out-competing for the available nutrients in the tank.

What exactly is the Cyanobacteria out-competing?

FWIW, I think that statement may more correctly apply to dinos than to cyano, but cyano is a special beast:

1. It is one of the few photosynthetic bacteria (hence its susceptibility to antibiotics)
2. It readily consumes organics as well as nitrate and phosphate, so keeping organics low can help (unlike many other algae)
3. It often does not deal well with flow, so high flow may blow it off or surfaces that algae or coralline may continue to grow on

 

[Dom]

Turning all the lights out for a few days can help also. It seem like you just need to break the cycle and it goes away. My go-to process has been:
1) Vacuum out Cyano after the lights have been on all day;
2) Do a big water change;
3) Add a bunch of GAC & set the skimmer to skim very wet; and
4) Turn off the lights and don't feed for 3 days.

Usually works. Sometimes has to be repeated a couple of times.

Just as an FYI to the thread: I'm not dealing with Cyanobacteria now, but I have in the past. I was wondering about it and thought I'd start a conversation about it.

 

[Dom]

Add bacteria such as micro bacteria 7 and remove white light at minimum

Is it possible to measure the amount of bacteria in your tank?

 

[Subsea]

Is it possible to measure the amount of bacteria in your tank?

A bacteria profile for reef tanks is available. Some reefers on this website have used the service.

I've read many times that Cyanobacteria outbreaks are the result of the Cyano out-competing for the available nutrients in the tank.

What exactly is the Cyanobacteria out-competing?

I disagree with lower nitrate & phosphate to discourage Cynobacteria.

Cynobacteria bacteria can cover substrate and generate biochemistry to dissolve calcium phosphate that was sequestered in substrate. In a process called nitrogen fixation, Cynobacteria convert dissolved nitrogen gas into ammonia. So by limiting nitrate & phospate, competition to Cynobacteria is eliminated which allows cyno to continue using trace minerals without competition.

 

[BigMikeFlipz]

I am on the very front start of a small outbreak on my rocks. Tank is 22 days old, has a lot of flow for a 29 gallon tank: a 1320 gallon sicce, and a 520 gallon sicce on top of the back pump/filter. I read that if you don't have a skimmer you can add a bubbler/air pump and that can help along with turning the lights out and a water change at a minimum. It's not too bad yet so I'm trying these options (and put a towel over the front of the aquarium to reduce some more light coming in... Will post if I am successful at these simple steps lol.

 

[Dan_P]

I've read many times that Cyanobacteria outbreaks are the result of the Cyano out-competing for the available nutrients in the tank.

What exactly is the Cyanobacteria out-competing?

The out-competing narrative is likely an after the fact invention. Little or no science behind it.

I am pretty sure that no one can look at aquarium conditions and predict whether or not a cyanobacteria outbreak will happen.