Please confirm cyano, and my attack plan

[MNscoe]

Well dang, my 4 month old tank has already blessed me with ich (lost 3 of 4 fish), and now cyano I think. Gee this is a fun hobby! My DT has spent more time fallow than with livestock…

Anyway, please kindly confirm the pic is cyano. It blossomed up over the past week or two. Is it severe? Or not so bad yet?

Context: DT has been fallow for 72 days. Put the one surviving fish (yellow wrasse) back in yesterday after copper treatment. During fallow, fed my one shrimp and CUC a bit occasionally. Kept lights going for coral. Parameters all went to zero near end of fallow, including phosphate, tank got a bit too sterile I guess. Temp 79° and saline 34.

As I tackle cyano, note I will add two clowns next but it will be 2-4 weeks in QT. My CUC has several nassarius. DT specs in signature block below.

I’ve been researching (thanks BRStv!) and assuming it’s cyano, my plan is to:
1. Vacuum regularly
2. Get NO3 and P back to “normal” levels and keep them stable there
3. Add a flow head to move water in a somewhat dead space.
4. Get some live ‘pods (I’ve not had any yet)
5. MAYBE: dose some extra Microbacter 7
6. MAYBE: get a fighting conch to stir sand.
7. MAYBE: get some KORALLEN-ZUCHT Cyano Clean bacteria?
8. IF ABOVE INSUFFICIENT: Use Chemi Clean Red Cyano Remover.

I’m a newbie, but trying to learn. Worried that my good bacteria declined.
Please critique my plan! Thank you.

 

[EnterName]

Your tank is fairly young so it's not uncommon to experience either cyanos or dinos. In many cases patience solves the issue but it still makes sense to ensure everything is alright.

You are talking about bringing NO3 and PO4 back to normal, so I assume they are elevated? As your tank is young you might want to test for NH3/NH4, NO2, NO3, and PO4 and post the results.

Here is a checklist you can go through:

1. If you are using any Nitrate-Removers you might want to stop doing so, as these products are effectively carbon dosing and will feed cyanos as well. Phosphate adsorbers (non-liquid) are fine though.
2. Make sure your skimmer is set up properly and adequately sized for your tank. It should be running 24/7.
3. Feed adequately and targeted while the flow is off.
4. Set up a Macro-Algae reactor or refugium if possible. Macro algae can collect a lot of detritus so having good flow through the refugium helps a lot.
5. Make sure you have filter whool/socks replaced/cleaned regularly.
6. Regular water changes. It may make sense to test the newly mixed water for nitrate and phosphate once to make sure it's not something wrong with the salt mix or RO/DI water.
7. As you said yourself: Copepods. They pretty much never hurt and even if they don't eat your issue directly, they will help to break down detritus so it can get removed by your skimmer.
8. Check your water flow. Maybe it's not enough or there are dead spots.
9. Bacteria solutions often contain quite a lot of phosphate and nitrate to give the bacteria enough food to survive in the bottle and new tanks a foundation of nutrients to start with. This isn't very helpful in your scenario. I wouldn't really bet on it.
10. Get an ICP test to verify your measurements are correct and there isn't another issue, like excessive trace elements or certain pollutants.
11. Siphon small fractions of the sand bed and monitor Ammonia and Nitrate levels afterwards to check if your substrate is contaminated. Don't do all at once or the suddenly released bio-load might overwhelm the tank.
12. Running a UV-C sterilizer with slow but sufficient flow can get rid of a lot of issues, even if the impact is limited as it can't directly reach the slime on the substrate.
13. Verify what you are dealing with using a microscope. Even very cheap ones will do. If you are sure it isn't a diatom issue you could also try silicate dosing as diatoms are great at consuming nutrients fast, and are easy to control. They are a great competitor for both Dinos and Cyanos.
14. Activated charcoal for a while. Note that adsorbing materials will also remove trace elements. You will need ICP tests to counter their depletion.
15. Chemicals/antibiotics will mess with a whole lot more than just the cyanos. It should be the last resort and especially im a young tank the effects can throw the biology off quite a bit.

There is probably more you can do and it is very difficult to explain all the nuance behind every one of those bullet points (I'm sure some people might disagree with a few of them or have different experiences like for example water changes that can add trace elements making bacteria growth worse), but as long as you keep observing and testing you should be fine.

 

[MNscoe]

Your tank is fairly young so it's not uncommon to experience either cyanos or dinos. In many cases patience solves the issue but it still makes sense to ensure everything is alright.

You are talking about bringing NO3 and PO4 back to normal, so I assume they are elevated? As your tank is young you might want to test for NH3/NH4, NO2, NO3, and PO4 and post the results.

Here is a checklist you can go through:

1. If you are using any Nitrate-Removers you might want to stop doing so, as these products are effectively carbon dosing and will feed cyanos as well. Phosphate adsorbers (non-liquid) are fine though.
2. Make sure your skimmer is set up properly and adequately sized for your tank. It should be running 24/7.
3. Feed adequately and targeted while the flow is off.
4. Set up a Macro-Algae reactor or refugium if possible. Macro algae can collect a lot of detritus so having good flow through the refugium helps a lot.
5. Make sure you have filter whool/socks replaced/cleaned regularly.
6. Regular water changes. It may make sense to test the newly mixed water for nitrate and phosphate once to make sure it's not something wrong with the salt mix or RO/DI water.
7. As you said yourself: Copepods. They pretty much never hurt and even if they don't eat your issue directly, they will help to break down detritus so it can get removed by your skimmer.
8. Check your water flow. Maybe it's not enough or there are dead spots.
9. Bacteria solutions often contain quite a lot of phosphate and nitrate to give the bacteria enough food to survive in the bottle and new tanks a foundation of nutrients to start with. This isn't very helpful in your scenario. I wouldn't really bet on it.
10. Get an ICP test to verify your measurements are correct and there isn't another issue, like excessive trace elements or certain pollutants.
11. Siphon small fractions of the sand bed and monitor Ammonia and Nitrate levels afterwards to check if your substrate is contaminated. Don't do all at once or the suddenly released bio-load might overwhelm the tank.
12. Running a UV-C sterilizer with slow but sufficient flow can get rid of a lot of issues, even if the impact is limited as it can't directly reach the slime on the substrate.
13. Verify what you are dealing with using a microscope. Even very cheap ones will do. If you are sure it isn't a diatom issue you could also try silicate dosing as diatoms are great at consuming nutrients fast, and are easy to control. They are a great competitor for both Dinos and Cyanos.
14. Activated charcoal for a while. Note that adsorbing materials will also remove trace elements. You will need ICP tests to counter their depletion.
15. Chemicals/antibiotics will mess with a whole lot more than just the cyanos. It should be the last resort and especially im a young tank the effects can throw the biology off quite a bit.

There is probably more you can do and it is very difficult to explain all the nuance behind every one of those bullet points (I'm sure some people might disagree with a few of them or have different experiences like for example water changes that can add trace elements making bacteria growth worse), but as long as you keep observing and testing you should be fine.

This is a great list of suggestions. True I can’t do them all, as I have a canister not a sump, but I will explore them and add what I can to my attack plan. Thank you!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Definitely cyano. My suggestions for cyano include manual removal, and reducing organics such as by skimming, GAC, Purigen, and water changes. Reducing nutrients is not typically a cyano approach.

 

[MNscoe]

Definitely cyano. My suggestions for cyano include manual removal, and reducing organics such as by skimming, GAC, Purigen, and water changes. Reducing nutrients is not typically a cyano approach.

Thanks for confirming Randy. I think my cyano bloomed because my tank went to sterile during 72-day fallow. I've heard that can happen. Apparently it's key to have NO3 and P not too low and not too high... so I'm reading, at least.
Already started manual removal, working on reducing organics and will do more frequent water changes.

 

[MNscoe]

Update: wasn’t making much progress with rebalanced nitrates and phos and manual cleanings and daily Microbacter7. Learned of a test to put some of it in a cup and add peroxide, and I got no bubbles — meaning it’s dinos !?
So now I’m studying Dino attacks. Got a UV sterilizer, continuing MB7 dosing and ordering a UV sweeper for spot treatments.
Argh!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Never heard of that test, but dinos are not red.

 

[MNscoe]

Never heard of that test, but dinos are not red.

Ok, well I’m far from sure about this. The peroxide test I found is in this forum post #986:

Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

@mcarroll I am linking a thread I started that noticed my ORP was super low and I thought that was probably due to dinos. Anyone else notice the same thing? https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/can-dinos-cause-really-low-orp.325625/#post-4035164 I'll continue updating there.

www.reef2reef.com

And now I’m realizing my growth is less red than it was, or green and brown (see pic taken with white flashlight). Maybe my Cyano attack has been working and it has morphed to something else?

I have not done any chemiclean or aggressive therapy. Just nutrient balance, vac and water changes, and now a UV sterilizer light with a pump.

What do you think?