Please help! I think my Royal gramma is dying :(

[JVH]

I know the royal gramma lay in weird positions and do weird things and my little RG has been in all different caves and cracks and crevices.
Friday night I did a big water change and clean up and at the end when everything was all done I noticed my Royal and my orchid Dottie back came face-to-face and actually started fighting like 30 seconds of vicious fighting! I think they were both going for the same hiding spot and since I had just done a 6 gallon water change on my 29 gallon tank and did a lot of vacuuming and cleaning I guess everybody was a little bit stressed out to begin with..

Ever since then(last Friday) The RG has been sleeping behind the heater behind the powerhead behind my front tree or just hovering around the very top of the tank.. I have seen him come face-to-face with the orchid Dottie back again and they've had no issue since they were swimming near each other and everything seemed fine so I think it was just a temporary issue where they were going for the same hiding spot The RG is totally different personality now.

Last night I thought something was wrong because he was totally covered in what appeared to be little tiny microscopic water bubbles.. He was not like that earlier in the day There seemed to be more bubbles coming in the tank via the filter which I will be cleaning out tonight.
I thought maybe it was because he's never hung so high up to the top before and the little bubbles were sticking to him but no other fish I had anything like on them.

Now he's hiding out on the bottom of the sand by a Kenya tree when I came near him he started swimming normal and went back to the bottom again and he's kind of hanging on his side.. He's not breathing heavy but he didn't go for food tonight..
And now that he's not moving much I'm getting a really good look at his face and he might have some white spots on him though I can't tell if it's still the little water bubbles on the purple part.. I am really am worried and I know they do weird things but I think he's sick! I am sick over this now !!

I have an old 10 gallon tank that in about a half an hour when my husband is home I'm going to have him dig it out for me clean it out put in a powerhead any heater and make a quarantine tank for him...
My question is how do I know what to treat him for since the spots are so tiny and they weren't really there the day before so I'm not convinced that it's still not the little water bubbles somehow sticking to him or something else!
I'm really heartbroken at the thought of losing him and everybody else in the tank seems fine I really want to get him out because I don't want to spread disease to the other fish but I'm just at a loss for what to do next once I pull him out.
What do I even treat the tank for? and what do I treat him for? and do I even treat the original display tank?

Everything has been going so smooth it seems like since that water change it all happened and now I just don't know what to do!
29 gallon tank running & established for 4 months

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrates less than 20 ppm
PH 8.0 fluctuate slightly
Alkalinity 180
Calcium 380
Temperature steady 78°
Salinity zero 1.024

Inhabitants

Cleaning crew of about 15 snails and crabs.
(2 New baby snail just found in my tank yesterday)
emerald crab
1 Fire shrimp 1peppermint shrimp
2 ocellairs clowns
1 Royal grams
1 orchard dottyback
1 Midas Blenny

Various frags and small hammer cor

Please any suggestions or advice would mean a lot

 

[JVH]

I have an update already and I don't think it's good I shined the light on top of him outside the tank and I was able to get a blurry picture but it does look like he has white spots all over his face though in person it looks like a little beads of water and he just started flailing around the tank rubbing up against every rock and surface though he seems to be swimming normally now but definitely scratching on

rocks!!
Ugh! Is it ick?? Is everybody else in danger?
I can't believe he seems to be swimming around normally now but I don't think he's normal because I just put a little food and now that he's moving around and he won't touch it

 

[Bensadork]

I'm still very new to saltwater myself but I have a bit of experience with freshwater so I know how much of a problem ich can be. Unfortunately it looks like that very well may be the case. The white spots and rubbing against the rocks are a tell-tale sign (to me at least) if I M wrong please someone correct me but if I were you I would start to research how to properly treat for that.

 

[SeahorseKeeper]

I moved your thread to this forum to help get you more answers. Good luck with the royal gramma.

 

[JVH]

I moved your thread to this forum to help get you more answers. Good luck with the royal gramma.

Thanks, I guess this isn't an active forum! I always get lots of looks but barley any people to talk to...Oh well..
I went to the local FS and bought some kick ick.. I will hope for the best.

 

[Small triggers]

If you can pull him out and do a freshwater dip that will work better than the kick ich....

 

[SeahorseKeeper]

I would quarantine the fish and monitor it closely. I can't tell from the pics if it is certainly ich. If you could take a pic from a little further away, it might help to see what it could be. The scratching does sound like ich.

 

[JVH]

If you can pull him out and do a freshwater dip that will work better than the kick ich....

I was considering a freshwater dip after I did some research but I was told they could die from being so stressed out and this guy is extremely stressed out right now! I didn't want to take a chance and try and kill him if there is a chance he can come back from this...

 

[JVH]

This sucks! I now have 3 sick fish...I HATE this! My black and white clown now has spots and my Orchard dotty is hiding and not eating.. I treated with kick ick last night and I guess I was hoping things would at least stabilize but instead it seems worse! I read and also talked to someone last night who said you can kill your already stressed out fish from a freshwater dip..The only good thing is the Royal Gramma is still alive.

 

[SeahorseKeeper]

Can you quarantine the fish in a separate tank? I would stop the kick ick and do a good water change. I think the key right now is to keep the fish as stress free as possible. What foods are you feeding? I would try to get Reef Frenzy. It is a great food and even the most stubborn fish will usually go for it.

 

[SeahorseKeeper]

Humblefish

 

[Humblefish]

That pic does look like ich to me. You need to QT him and all of his fish tankmates, and treat for ich. I'll post some useful links below this msg to help get you going. Most dottybacks are fierce little fish and should never be housed with small, peaceful species like a RG. The dottyback didn't cause the ich - it was already there. But aggression from the dottyback probably stressed the RG out, lowered his immune system and made him more susceptible.

 

[Humblefish]

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/191226-how-treat-ich.html

 

[Humblefish]

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/189815-how-quarantine.html

 

[JVH]

Can you quarantine the fish in a separate tank? I would stop the kick ick and do a good water change. I think the key right now is to keep the fish as stress free as possible. What foods are you feeding? I would try to get Reef Frenzy. It is a great food and even the most stubborn fish will usually go for it.

I am going out today to petco and pic up a cheap 20g. set up.. I have another heater and a blower..Problem is 3 fish are now showing signs..If I remove all the 20 may be to open..I heard pvc pipe makes good hiding spaces..
Wouldn't it be easier to pull all coral,frags and inverts to qt tank since they are ok and then tread the DT? with a stronger medication. .kick ick was highly recommended by someone since its reef safe and like everything else in the hobby, there is more than one option.. Someone suggested the copper treatment for fast results but Im afraid to do that.. Im also afraid to stop the kick ick because others say it works.. Im totally frustrated! What I do know is I need to set up a hospital tank. I am thinking it may be easier catching inverts and coral and keeping them in the new tank..What do you think about that?

 

[JVH]

That pic does look like ich to me. You need to QT him and all of his fish tankmates, and treat for ich. I'll post some useful links below this msg to help get you going. Most dottybacks are fierce little fish and should never be housed with small, peaceful species like a RG. The dottyback didn't cause the ich - it was already there. But aggression from the dottyback probably stressed the RG out, lowered his immune system and made him more susceptible.

In defense od the dottyback, they always got along and they got long right after the fight. I think they were stressed due to large cleaning (my fault there) and RG was hiding and DB tried to hide in the same spot. but after there fight they were fine. No more fighting and I noticed them swimming near each other. But a day later I noticed the spots on the RG.. Now DB is not eating either..Its such a mess...

 

[JVH]

Thanks for the links.. I will try to figure out what to do but I'm still wondering id it isn't easier to remove all coral and invert to new tank and treat and isoate the DT till this passes..With all Inverts out and coral out I can tread DT with copper couldn't I?

 

[SeahorseKeeper]

You would need to take all the rock and sand out as well.

 

[JVH]

You would need to take all the rock and sand out as well.

guess that's out! Do you think a 20g with pvc hiding places is enough room for 5 fish?

 

[SeahorseKeeper]

If you could swing it, I would get a 40 breeder. I believe that Petco is still having their $1 per gallon sale. I would get a divider to keep the dottyback separate from the other fish. This will help to eliminate the aggression from the dottyback. Are you a member of NJ Reefer's? You may want to post a thread on there and maybe someone local has a tank you could borrow to get you through this.