Please Help ID

[duesmortem]

Hello R2R community,

My tank has developed this very odd reddish-brown film that encrusts all rocks and parts of the sandbed that are exposed to light. I thought this was cyanobacteria so I ran a cycle of chemiclean. Didn't really make a difference. So I decided the physical remove as much as possible and it helped a lot. However it seems to always grow back during the day light cycle. Does anyone have any ideas at to what this is and how I can try to eliminate it from my system?

It's difficult to see in the photos, but it has this string like appearance and just flows with the current.

 

[Mickle]

looks like diatoms

 

[duesmortem]

looks like diatoms

These are also diatoms or something else?

 

[saltyhog]

Does not look like diatoms at all. That's likely dinoflagellates....either Coolia or Ostreopsis. Any corals stressed, dead inverts? Do you have access to a microscope? What are your current NO3 and PO4.

 

[encrustingacro]

Does not look like diatoms at all. That's likely dinoflagellates....either Coolia or Ostreopsis. Any corals stressed, dead inverts? Do you have access to a microscope? What are your current NO3 and PO4.

I thought osteopsis was when you have fragile bones.

 

[saltyhog]

I thought osteopsis was when you have fragile bones.

That gave me a chuckle for several reasons. I'm a retired physician and get tickled when I type ostreopsis and auto correct changes it to osteoporosis...and yes that is "fragile bones" caused by demineralization that's related to age, decreased hormone levels and genetics.

 

[duesmortem]

Does not look like diatoms at all. That's likely dinoflagellates....either Coolia or Ostreopsis. Any corals stressed, dead inverts? Do you have access to a microscope? What are your current NO3 and PO4.

I recently lost two emerald crabs to my blood shrimp. (I recently did a deep clean and moved some rocks. I found two cracked open crab shells in the shrimp's lair.) I do have access to a microscope at the school I work at. However, I don't have the means to currently test nitrates or phosphates, but I will be able to test tomorrow at my LFS.

 

[saltyhog]

I recently lost two emerald crabs to my blood shrimp. (I recently did a deep clean and moved some rocks. I found two cracked open crab shells in the shrimp's lair.) I do have access to a microscope at the school I work at. However, I don't have the means to currently test nitrates or phosphates, but I will be able to test tomorrow at my LFS.

I doubt seriously that the blood shrimp had anything to do with the crab's death....probably just cleaning up the carnage. Dinos could definitely be the cause of the crab deaths.

Post pictures of your microscope slides (or better yet video). I would encourage you to consider test kits for NO3 and PO4. Red Sea and Salifert are not terribly expensive. It's important for reef tanks even when not having issues with pest algae.

 

[bnord]

That gave me a chuckle for several reasons. I'm a retired physician and get tickled when I type ostreopsis and auto correct changes it to osteoporosis...and yes that is "fragile bones" caused by demineralization that's related to age, decreased hormone levels and genetics.

happens to me when I let my All and pH drop too low..

 

[duesmortem]

I doubt seriously that the blood shrimp had anything to do with the crab's death....probably just cleaning up the carnage. Dinos could definitely be the cause of the crab deaths.

Post pictures of your microscope slides (or better yet video). I would encourage you to consider test kits for NO3 and PO4. Red Sea and Salifert are not terribly expensive. It's important for reef tanks even when not having issues with pest algae.

Aside from testing my parameters. What other recommendations do you have that will help get rid of the dinoflagellates? I have just been manually removing patches of it and adding 'Stability' after every water change.

 

[saltyhog]

Aside from testing my parameters. What other recommendations do you have that will help get rid of the dinoflagellates? I have just been manually removing patches of it and adding 'Stability' after every water change.

That very much depends on what type of dino it is. If it IS ostreopsis or coolia UV is the most effective treatment. In addition to keeping your NO3 between 5-10 and PO4 0.05-0.12, dose phyto regularly.

 

[duesmortem]

That very much depends on what type of dino it is. If it IS ostreopsis or coolia UV is the most effective treatment. In addition to keeping your NO3 between 5-10 and PO4 0.05-0.12, dose phyto regularly.

 

[saltyhog]

That is ostreopsis. The best treatment is UV. It needs to be plumbed from the display back to the display with a dedicated pump running about 2x the display volume per hour. DO NOT go by manufacturer's recommendations for sizing the UV for your tank. Those recommendations are for applications other than dinos and do not apply. UV should be at least 1watt/ 3 gallons display volume.

With properly sized and installed UV you should see improvement rapidly.

I would also recommend running activated carbon and changing frequently. Ostreopsis is the MOST toxic of dinos. Running carbon can mitigate some of the losses than can occur with corals/inverts with this dino.

 

[duesmortem]

That is ostreopsis. The best treatment is UV. It needs to be plumbed from the display back to the display with a dedicated pump running about 2x the display volume per hour. DO NOT go by manufacturer's recommendations for sizing the UV for your tank. Those recommendations are for applications other than dinos and do not apply. UV should be at least 1watt/ 3 gallons display volume.

With properly sized and installed UV you should see improvement rapidly.

I would also recommend running activated carbon and changing frequently. Ostreopsis is the MOST toxic of dinos. Running carbon can mitigate some of the losses than can occur with corals/inverts with this dino.

I currently have carbon as an additional filtration. I will hit up my LFS today and look at UV systems. Thank you so much for your help!!! I greatly appreciate it

 

[duesmortem]

That is ostreopsis. The best treatment is UV. It needs to be plumbed from the display back to the display with a dedicated pump running about 2x the display volume per hour. DO NOT go by manufacturer's recommendations for sizing the UV for your tank. Those recommendations are for applications other than dinos and do not apply. UV should be at least 1watt/ 3 gallons display volume.

With properly sized and installed UV you should see improvement rapidly.

I would also recommend running activated carbon and changing frequently. Ostreopsis is the MOST toxic of dinos. Running carbon can mitigate some of the losses than can occur with corals/inverts with this dino.

Just to make sure... my display is 15 gallons. So I need to run 30 gallons per hour. And the UV should be at least 5 watts?

 

[saltyhog]

Just to make sure... my display is 15 gallons. So I need to run 30 gallons per hour. And the UV should be at least 5 watts?

Correct! This may be difficult with the small size of your tank. Aqua UV makes a hang on UV unit in 8 and 15 watt. Not much price difference between the two. Unfortunately the smallest pump I could find was about 80 gallons per hour. You may just have to oversize your UV and run the smallest pump you can find.

 

[stovenut]

You really need to test your nitrates and phosphates regularly. I'd recommend purchasing a recommended test kit or both.
The brown slime is a dinoflagellate and I have seen then arrive due to high nutrient levels and I've also seen then some as a result of over use of vodka/carbon dosing, which can bottom out your nutrients.
New tanks are less stable and are more susceptible to nitrates and phosphates. Test every 2 or 3 weeks and keep a record of your results. I suggest you also test for calcium, alk, magnesium, and have a ph monitor.

 

[duesmortem]

Correct! This may be difficult with the small size of your tank. Aqua UV makes a hang on UV unit in 8 and 15 watt. Not much price difference between the two. Unfortunately the smallest pump I could find was about 80 gallons per hour. You may just have to oversize your UV and run the smallest pump you can find.

So I did some research and even went to my LFS to seek out a UV sterilizer. Their cheapest one was $200 so I started looking online. I found this in-tank sterilizer and it works for saltwater, but it's definitely a cheap and probably won't last too long. But I figure it'll get the job done until I can afford a better sterilizer

It's 5 watts and is said to treat tanks up to 75 gallons. Doesn't provide any information about gallons per hour or day.

Also here are my parameters from a sample I took this morning

 

[saltyhog]

So I did some research and even went to my LFS to seek out a UV sterilizer. Their cheapest one was $200 so I started looking online. I found this in-tank sterilizer and it works for saltwater, but it's definitely a cheap and probably won't last too long. But I figure it'll get the job done until I can afford a better sterilizer

It's 5 watts and is said to treat tanks up to 75 gallons. Doesn't provide any information about gallons per hour or day.

Also here are my parameters from a sample I took this morning

No that unit is not suitable for dinos. Green Killing machines have a poor record in treating dinos, likely due to their built in pump with too high a flow rate. One thing that everyone has to realize is that manufacturer's recommendations for size and flow are MEANINGLESS for dinos. They have not designed or even thought of using them for this application.....so you can't go by what size the package says it's good for.

You can give it a go but I'm afraid it will be a waste of money and time.

What kits were used for your parameter testing? Magnesium is really low. Is nitrate 1 or 0.1?.....both are too low with dinos (5-10 is the best goal for NO3). PO4 is fine if you get your NO3 up to around 10. Brightwell makes a good supplement to raise NO3.

 

[duesmortem]

No that unit is not suitable for dinos. Green Killing machines have a poor record in treating dinos, likely due to their built in pump with too high a flow rate. One thing that everyone has to realize is that manufacturer's recommendations for size and flow are MEANINGLESS for dinos. They have not designed or even thought of using them for this application.....so you can't go by what size the package says it's good for.

You can give it a go but I'm afraid it will be a waste of money and time.

What kits were used for your parameter testing? Magnesium is really low. Is nitrate 1 or 0.1?.....both are too low with dinos (5-10 is the best goal for NO3). PO4 is fine if you get your NO3 up to around 10. Brightwell makes a good supplement to raise NO3.

Alright so how about the Coralife Mini UV Sterilizer? They say this works for algae, parasites, and bacteria. So I hope this will be a viable option. But I don't have a biocube so I will need to purchase a pump as well and run that in a 5 gallon bucket since I also do not have a sump.... thoughts?

Also, I sincerely appreciate all your time and consideration with this issue. I have had this tank for about 2 years now and this is my first encounter with dinos