Plumbing discussion

[Diwrigh]

I'm currently working on the plumbing for my 57g rimless build.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/daniels-first-shot-57g-rimless.409349/

New to this but ideally I would like to get something close to this picture (another 57g)

I dont have nearly as nice of a sump as this one but I need to turn my sump into at least a two part three chamber sump. Any advice on how to measure, what connections and what glue to use for the plexiglass?

A big thing im struggling to understand is how tall to make each plexiglass piece in order to ensure the water flows in the right direction in the sump. Should it flow from the left to right (in the below picture)? Or the opposite? Love the hobby! Excited to get things going

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

There's not a right or wrong direction for water to flow in a sump. On one end of the sump, the water from your tank enters. On the other side, the return pump moves the water back to your tank. That could be right to left, or it could be left to right. In the picture above, the one you want to mirror, it's right to left.

I haven't done any gluing or bonding of acrylic, so I can't speak to that. I know that a lot of people just use silicone, even though it's not ideal for bonding acrylic to glass. But, it seems to work okay for most folks. Maybe someone with more experience can chime in.

 

[mcarroll]

I'd suggest going with an open sump and using it based on need as the tank grows.

Simple, less restricting AND let's you focus on more important things during the beginning of the tank. (I.e. the animal tank vs the equipment tank)

All you need down there is a skimmer to give the system aeration and a little filtration. That's it. (Well, an ATO is nice too.)

After a skimmer, you need live rock and time more than anything else.

You'll be stocking the tank slowly, with lots of time before the first fish goes in. There should already be a CUC presence, and maybe even a coral or two (if corals are intended) before the first fish goes in. Fish go in no more than 1-2 at a time. You will need to wait around a month after any new addition so you can monitor the system for changes and react as needed with more CUC, etc. The next time you add aminals it would be nice for it to be a few more corals instead of fish – still low quantities being added. Then another wait/CUC period. Then the next round of animals. Etc. Stocking a tank should take a LONG TIME if done properly with maximum success as a goal – even a 57 gallon could take over a year to finish.

Remember: Nothing good happens fast in a reef tank.

 

[Greybeard]

Welcome :)

A completely open sump can be a problem. Too much water available to the return pump. If your overflow clogs, the return pump will overfill the display, and cause a mess.

Ideally, your tank, sump, overflow, and return systems all should be in balance.

The direction of flow through your sump is dictated by where the water enters and exits the sump. I've seen sumps run right/left, left/right, from both ends to the center, and around in a circle :) How _your_ sump should flow is kinda up to you.

IMHO: Concentrate on the objectives, and work out the details, one at a time, to fulfill your objective.

Your objective should be something like this:
You want X gallons per hour of water to flow through your sump and be returned to the tank... safely, with low our no risk of making a mess, and the sump will contain these components.

The X number is important. You've got to size everything appropriately to this number. Most people say somewhere from 3 to 10 times your display tank volume should flow through the sump every hour. At 3x, that's 171 gph. At 10x, that's 570 gph. Neither of those numbers would be hard to achieve, in fact, with a good adjustable DC pump, you might even be able to vary the flow between those two numbers without too much problem.

The components your going to house in your sump, too, are important. I run a large macro algae refugeum, a skimmer, heater, return pump, Apex probe holder, quad dosing line holder, and a Tunze ATO sensor module. My layout generally conforms to Triton's suggested sump layout, though I'm no longer using Triton's 'system'. Skimmers will have specific water height requirements. Pump compartments, as I mentioned, should be small enough so that the pump would run dry before it makes a mess, should the overflow become clogged (don't forget to add in ATO system capacity!).

What kind of overflow does your 57g tank have, if any? How many drain lines? Does it have a built in return line, or are you going to go over the top rim for your return? How many returns?

Have a plan, before you start cutting material :)

When working with sump dividers, remember, a sump compartment doesn't necessarily need to be completely water tight. If it leaks a bit... so what. You've got water on either side, right?

Acrylic swells a bit, leave some gap (1/8" or so) between the cut acrylic sheet and the glass tank walls, or it could crack the glass.

Aquarium grade silicone is the usual way to attach acrylic baffles to a glass tank. Silicone bonds well to glass, but DOES NOT bond well to acrylic. No big deal, as I said, if it leaks, as long as it's contained in the sump.

 

[mcarroll]

A completely open sump can be a problem. Too much water available to the return pump. If your overflow clogs, the return pump will overfill the display, and cause a mess.

I'm not sure but that sounds hypothetical. So just to add on...

Personally, I've run nothing but open sumps since around 1995.

Usually with plain U-tube overflows (almost 100%).

I've have never seen a clog or drain break happen on a correctly built system with no defects. (I've had to return some bad/broken products. Always always always do multiple power-off tests on any new system. Always.)

Even a basic old-school U-tube drain is no-clog by its design.

For what it's worth, I've got a pretty massive sump compared to average...a 30 Long on a 100 gallon system.

Running, it's about half-full....and carries about 11 gallons of water.

There are about 11 gallons of open space on top of the water/under the tank rim of the displays connected.

The meniscus will give me around another .5 gallons.

(Yes this matters :) ....the meniscus saved me from losing any water on the one potential flood I've had....thanks to a precipitation event seizing all the pumps AND return siphon breaks in the tank. Sump+meniscus held 100% of the water even with the drains siphoning water down to the spray-bar outlets!!)

But if clogs are a real fear, then a pump shutoff seems more sensible.

And a leak detector would seem to be mandatory for when something besides the drain breaks.

There are high and low end options for all of this....

Water level alarm
comes with three sensors, a run-dry sensor and two overflow sensors. Each sensor comes with a holdin... mehr

7607/2

207.96 USD

aquahub
PumpStopper Kit
Price: $34.99

Build a versatile water level alert system

...among others.

You can integrate a leak detector with the ATO or return to shut off the pump, and/or have a plain notification system like the $60-70 Honeywell Wifi leak detectors that get high ratings.

Just some more thoughts...

Chopping up your sump up into arbitrary sections before your tank is even running is very common but seems backward to me. Like putting three rows of seats in a vehicle before you even know whether it's gonna be an SUV or a sports car.

IMO, a refugium would be the only real reason to chop it up – one wall/section.

But an ATO is all it takes to make a skimmer be reliable and a refugium is hardly necessary for reefing.

A refugium is not even the only way to grow algae if that's a goal.

In fact, a refugium is the only way to grow algae that can't easily be added later on if/when needed. (Though it's still not impossible to add on later...just not as easy as dropping something in and turning it on.)

It may even be the least efficient way to grow algae when everything is considered.

An ATS as probably the most efficient based on the design and that there are so many different ways to do it, inlcuding commercial and DIY options out the wazoo. ;)

(Check out @SantaMonica's recent ATS article if you're not familiar with them....it's sort of a comparison of algae methods, but mostly it's there to point out what gives the ATS its advantages. Lots and lots has been written on other methods, so I suspect that's why not much focus is on them in his article. GOOD ARTICLE. @Paul B's DIY algae trough might be the most famous ATS around....tho I'm not sure he's got it back up and running after the move. If you wanna see real-life examples, his is a good one to start with.)

2¢

 

[Greybeard]

mcarroll... just goes to show, lots of different ways to skin a cat. You're not wrong... just run a different sort of system than I do. I'm not sure how useful a back and forth between us would be for Diwrigh, but I'll indulge in it for a bit. If nothing else, he can see that there are many different ways to run a successful reef system :)

As for return pump flooding a display being hypothetical, I've seen that particular hypothesis ruin carpet and warp subfloor. First hand.

There are different ways to handle just about any issue. A small return pump compartment works, reliably. Leak detectors are great. I have two, and recommend them, but if you're not home to deal with it... well, all they do is tell you there's a problem. Automatically shutting off a pump is an excellent idea, though perhaps a bit advanced for someone new to the game. I use one to shut off my skimmer and ATO, if the sump level rises above normal.

My sump holds 40 gallons or so, at normal water level. If I were to try and pump that much water into my 140 gallon display, I'd have a huge mess. My return pump compartment holds about 4 gallons. No problem... and my ATO is on a timer, as well as sensors, and won't pump more than about a gallon at a time without alarming and turning itself off.

When I set my sump up, I measured the return pump I meant to use, allowed a bit extra room for the ATO sensor block, and used that dimension to size the compartment. I knew I wanted a large refugeum... they're useful for far more than simply growing macro algae, though you are correct, as with any single component, they're not required. Anyway, I made the ref the size I wanted it... and left the rest of the sump open, for whatever I wanted to use it for, with a water level about where my skimmer was comfortable running.

Nothing wrong with an open sump, provided you've got associated systems to deal with it. I set up systems in an aquarium shop for a friend in the business, 28x 30g tanks on a 100g sump, and 16x40g tanks on a 75g sump. Both wide open. In that environment, you need enough space to be able to bag up fish all day without running the sump dry. Different requirements, dictated a different kind of solution.

I still say that a clear plan is the place to start. Let the system be designed around meeting your goals, and the tools and techniques you intend to use to achieve them, rather than the other way around.

 

[mcarroll]

I still say that a clear plan is the place to start. Let the system be designed around meeting your goals, and the tools and techniques you intend to use to achieve them, rather than the other way around.

Definitely agree on this 100%. :)

(Most of the rest too!!!!)