Plumbing RO/DI

[fragit]

So I am going to be setting up a sump/fish room in my basement. I don't have any plumbing that is readily available for my RO/DI waste water, I've already accepted the fact that I will be lugging 5gal buckets from water changes, but don't want to have to do that for purifying water. I can get feed water with no issues, the problem is where and how to plumb the waste. All the plumbing is up near the ceiling of the basement. Any ideas of how I can tap into the current plumbing for the RO/DI waste? Thanks in advance for your input/ideas.

 

[twilliard]

Perhaps a piercing saddle would work for you.

 

[fragit]

Perhaps a piercing saddle would work for you.

Yes to supply water for the purification, not sure that works for the waste water that is produced by the RO/DI system though.

 

[twilliard]

In my basement I cut a tee in my line then reduced down for the 1/4" line

 

[mcarroll]

There is the equivalent to a piercing saddle for the drain line as well.

It may not be a very common part, but I have one. Trying to remember where I bought it...

 

[AZDesertRat]

NO.
You need an air gap between the waste line and the receiving or sewer line so do not tap it in.
You can run the waste line up to a sink drain or a washing machine drain but remember to always check and adjust the waste ratio when lengthening the waste line or running it uphill as the waste ratio will change due to the additional head.
When you send it to the drain make sure it is on the sink side of the P trap if you do use a drain saddle or place it above the washing machine drain so it drips onto the drain and is not shoved down into it so there is no chance of sewer gasses or back siphonage.

 

[fragit]

There is the equivalent to a piercing saddle for the drain line as well.

It may not be a very common part, but I have one. Trying to remember where I bought it...

Oh cool, I never heard of that! I'll ask BRS when I order my new set up! If you can remember please let me know! And thanks!

 

[mcarroll]

https://www.freshwatersystems.com/mobilesearch2.aspx?keywords=Drain+saddle

Many options. [emoji106][emoji3]

 

[AZDesertRat]

Its called a saddle tap. Make sure it is installed on the sink side of a P trap drain though! You do not want sewage or sewer gas getting back to the RO/DI. Air gaps are required by the uniform plumbing code and buildig codes for your safety.

 

[fragit]

Its called a saddle tap. Make sure it is installed on the sink side of a P trap drain though! You do not want sewage or sewer gas getting back to the RO/DI. Air gaps are required by the uniform plumbing code and buildig codes for your safety.

Hmm, good point on the sewer stuff. Okay this makes things a little more difficult for my application, don't know what I'm gonna do.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Extend the line up to a bathroom, laundry or kitchen sink drain and tap the line on the sink side of the P trap. Once you do that you then need to check and probably adjust your waste ratio using an untrimmed capillary tube flow restrictor. Personally I don't like saddle taps or hidden waste lines as you lose track of the waste flow and they have been known to plug causing the RO membrane to fail, had this happen personally many years ago. Today I have a plastic laundry sink in my garage next to the washing machine, the RO/DI is mounted on the wall above it and the waste line is attached to the sink using a small nylon clamp like used to hold cable TV coaxial cable in place so it wastes into the sink and I can monitor the flow at a glance.
Do you really have to mount the RO/DI in the basement?

 

[recess62]

Will there be enough water pressure in his waste line to allow him to have adequate waste water flow without a booster pump?

 

[AZDesertRat]

If he has 50+ psi at the tap he is fine. Extending the waste line up 10 feet only places about 4 psi head on the system. The issue is the 4 psi is on the waste line so you want to check what efect that has on the 3:1 to 4:1 waste ratio and adjust it back to what it needs be if it falls outside your recommended waste ratio for your specific water conditions. This is where a capillary tube flow restrictor is handy as you can trim and adjust it for an exact number for about $5-$6 cost.
Since the tap water line is near the ceiling it won't be a 10' difference so minimal headloss between there and a first floor sink.

 

[mcarroll]

[...]
You can run the waste line up to a sink drain or a washing machine drain but remember to always check and adjust the waste ratio when lengthening the waste line or running it uphill as the waste ratio will change due to the additional head.

There will be substantial changes in flow with the seasons in Maine as well.

So do not make the drain line too permanent/hard to get to. You will need to make adjustments seasonally to keep system operating well.

Honestly running the waste line into an open drain is the most ideal, because you can monitor performance on a continuous basis and it's easy to take measurement samples.

I also use that access to pop a locking needle valve onto the end of my waste line when cold weather hits. Easy fix to the reduced flow rate and easy to undo in the Spring. [emoji106].

http://www.buckeyehydro.com/mini-needle-valve/

(I've used mine for years without issue. AZ says he has had clog issues with the valve or one like it, but he has ridiculously hard water. Something to be aware of though.)

When you send it to the drain make sure it is on the sink side of the P trap if you do use a drain saddle or place it above the washing machine drain so it drips onto the drain and is not shoved down into it so there is no chance of sewer gasses or back siphonage.

In the process, try to avoid creating an annoying dripping sound though.

I've talked to people that had to move their drain because the dripping sound into the trap was annoying.

 

[fragit]

Extend the line up to a bathroom, laundry or kitchen sink drain and tap the line on the sink side of the P trap. Once you do that you then need to check and probably adjust your waste ratio using an untrimmed capillary tube flow restrictor. Personally I don't like saddle taps or hidden waste lines as you lose track of the waste flow and they have been known to plug causing the RO membrane to fail, had this happen personally many years ago. Today I have a plastic laundry sink in my garage next to the washing machine, the RO/DI is mounted on the wall above it and the waste line is attached to the sink using a small nylon clamp like used to hold cable TV coaxial cable in place so it wastes into the sink and I can monitor the flow at a glance.
Do you really have to mount the RO/DI in the basement?

Think what I'm gonna have to do is convince the queen of the house (was tough to do to get her to even let me set up a new tank) to let me hood it up in the laundry room and just put the waste water down the drain with the washing machine drain. I will have to check accessibility to the cold water feed for the washer. Should be easy enough though, convincing my wife not so much.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Get a bronze garden hose wye like this:
http://www.target.com/p/melnor-metal-2-way-hose-valve/-/A-50244948?ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=50244948&ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&CPNG=PLA_Patio+Garden+Shopping&adgroup=SC_Patio+Garden&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=c&location=9030004&gclid=Cj0KEQiAno60BRDt89rAh7qt-4wBEiQASes2tZptXqIep8nPwbbVuwNoQ8bCHHjN6tobus2gLIwYAdUaAj1d8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

They have them at any hardware store or WalMart. Pull the washing machine out and install it on the cold water line so it feeds the washer and the RO/DI. When you run the waste line make sure it isn't jammed down the drain, place it so it is either suspended above the drain or just barely in it so there is no chance of backflow. Or there are a lot of air gap devices such as some pictured here and some of the newer wall boxes behind the washer have a built in place for an RO waste line with an air gap to meet code.
https://www.google.com/search?q=RO+air+gap+wall+drain&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=705&tbm=isch&imgil=GIw2_7fqCwqTkM%3A%3ByheFBICKeui0cM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.airgap.com%252Fmr_drain.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=GIw2_7fqCwqTkM%3A%2CyheFBICKeui0cM%2C_&usg=__8Am16GkML2AfvK0Sc49MmTZDMPM=&ved=0ahUKEwi9meznnoTKAhUGyGMKHb59DWYQyjcIKQ&ei=AiaEVr2QHIaQjwO--7WwBg#imgdii=GIw2_7fqCwqTkM:;GIw2_7fqCwqTkM:;f0ns9PMPWag4GM:&imgrc=GIw2_7fqCwqTkM:&usg=__8Am16GkML2AfvK0Sc49MmTZDMPM=

Move the unit in the home and its much easier to hook the RO only side to a drinking water kit, icemaker and refrigerator drinking water tap in the door. Getting dual use out of the RO/DI make it a much easier sell to the boss! We have had RO drinking water for over 15 years now and the clear ice cubes it makes are amazing.

 

[mcarroll]

If the situation in the washing area plumbing is too tight to work in, you can modify the plumbing.

They do have on/off valves that have an integrated push-fit connector. Like this:
http://www.parker.com/literature/Brass Products/bul.3500VAS Final 10-7-11.pdf

Not sure that'll work for a washing machine supply (which may be 3/4", vs 3/8" like the Parker) but it still gives you the idea. The Parker will work on most sink or toilet supplies.

 

[fragit]

If the situation in the washing area plumbing is too tight to work in, you can modify the plumbing.

They do have on/off valves that have an integrated push-fit connector. Like this:
http://www.parker.com/literature/Brass Products/bul.3500VAS Final 10-7-11.pdf

Not sure that'll work for a washing machine supply (which may be 3/4", vs 3/8" like the Parker) but it still gives you the idea. The Parker will work on most sink or toilet supplies.

That is cool, if I can find one that fits the washing machine feed line I'm in business!!!

 

[AZDesertRat]

Most washers have plenty of room behind them to fit a wye. They normally have to be pulled out a bit to clear the drain hose and to match the distance on the dryer which has the vent hose behind it.

 

[fragit]

Most washers have plenty of room behind them to fit a wye. They normally have to be pulled out a bit to clear the drain hose and to match the distance on the dryer which has the vent hose behind it.

WYE?