PO4 issue

[MikeyZo]

So I’ve been having a bad PO4 issue in my 14g biocube. My last tests were
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 10.1
Phosphates - 0.84 (yes, that’s right)
Calcium - 495
Magnesium -1190
Alkalinity - 13.2

Ammonia and nitrite are tested with Red Sea kit, the rest with Hanna Colorimeters. I’ve tried dosing brightwell Phosphat-E, and I’ve even thrown in some chemipure blue. Btw, my nitrates never went above 20 before the chemipure, so it’s not that keeping it down. My corals (hammer and zoas), inverts and fish don’t seem to mind the PO4 levels, and I dont have any algae or bacteria outbreaks. I through maybe the meter was wrong but I ordered the calibration set and it’s completely on point.

I can’t even blame overfeeding since my nitrates are so low. And the fish eat what I give them pretty quick. Other than some finer pieces, it’s 95% gone within a minute or two.

I guess my next guess is GFO? I ordered some pods and po4/no3 eating phyto along with a nitrate dose so that doesn’t bottom out.

I kind of have the “if it’s not broke, dont fix it” attitude but I know it’s going to be an issue in the long run if I don’t get it in check.

Thoughts?

 

[courtneykeeps]

How new is the tank?

 

[MikeyZo]

6 months

And just to stop the “new tank noob” thing before it starts, I had a mixed reef tank for years. But been out of the hobby for 10 years or so. I know things have changed the hobby but I’m not a dork :face-with-tears-of-joy:

Well maybe a little…

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

What test kit are you using? Your 10000% positive of the result? If yes, I would assume it is leaching from the rothcks, and would use gfo to bring the level down to acceptable level. IMO

 

[MikeyZo]

Yeah so I’ve been using the Hanna colorimeter. I thought maybe it was off. They sell a calibration test kit that has a 0ppm vial and another vial with that has a certified value with it. Mine with perfect. So it’s definitely not the test kit.

The thought of it leeching from the rocks definitely crossed my mind. I’m thinking of taking the skimmer out of chamber 2 for now and using gfo. Which brand do you recommend? I’ve heard mixed reviews about kolar and BRS being overly dusty.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

You can mix a bucket of new saltwater and add one or two rocks, if its leaching from the rocks, you will be able to see it on the tests.

I personally use rowa phos, but I have limited choices where I live so I can't compare it to the two you mentioned.

 

[Reeferbadness]

I also use Rowa Phos - very effective in slowly lowering Phos. I have to dose Nitrates as the chaeto in the refugium sucks out nitrates. When using Rowa Phos, u can turn it every few days (i keep mine in the filter sock on 1 tank and in the ReefMatt on the other) to keep it fresh. Usually it lasts for about 1 month.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

There are a number of ways to reduce it, but it's not an emergency. Some great tanks have higher phosphate.

Randy’s Thoughts on Nutrient Target Ranges

Thoughts on Nutrient Target Ranges by Randy Holmes-Farley Almost nothing in the world of reef aquarium chemistry causes as much discussion as selecting and maintaining ranges for nitrate and phosphate. Some aquarists want low targets, some want...

www.reef2reef.com

from it:


Figure 1. A very high nutrient system maintained by Richard Ross, with nitrate sometimes above 100 ppm and phosphate above 1 ppm.

...

• 4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:
  • Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
  • Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
  • Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
  • Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
  • Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
  • Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.

 

[CHSUB]

If tank is good I would not worry…however, I would reduce with GFO.

Other thoughts…10 no3 is not low and “bottom out” doesn’t exist in a fed aquarium with fish. I wouldn’t ever dose no3.

 

[MikeyZo]

If tank is good I would not worry…however, I would reduce with GFO.

Other thoughts…10 no3 is not low and “bottom out” doesn’t exist in a fed aquarium with fish. I wouldn’t ever dose no3.

Well I don’t want it so low that it affects my corals. I grabbed it as a precaution, not so much that I’m going to dose it every day. I also don’t necessarily know how well that NO3 and PO4 eating phyto work. I’ll obviously start slow for a week and keep an eye on them. I have no issue using media to achieve my goals but if I can do the same thing with less media and something living that’s also beneficial, I’m all for it.

 

[CHSUB]

For example, my no3 on Salifert Hobby test kit registered 0 and ICP lab test has .1 ppm and everything is fine. I googled ‘po4/no3 eating phyto’, because don’t know what it is and still don’t….haha. If your tank is healthy I would not add nutrients, only reduce po4 with GFO, but slowly while observing results and stopping if things go south.

 

[MikeyZo]

For example, my no3 on Salifert Hobby test kit registered 0 and ICP lab test has .1 ppm and everything is fine. I googled ‘po4/no3 eating phyto’, because don’t know what it is and still don’t….haha. If your tank is healthy I would not add nutrients, only reduce po4 with GFO, but slowly while observing results and stopping if things go south.

The idea of the phyto was two fold, first off I like to try to keep a decent pod population so I have been using phyto feast. I figured this would kill two birds.

Tisochrysis lutea and Tetraselmis chuii supposedly consume nitrates and phosphates as fuel

 

[CHSUB]

The idea of the phyto was two fold, first off I like to try to keep a decent pod population so I have been using phyto feast. I figured this would kill two birds.

Tisochrysis lutea and Tetraselmis chuii supposedly consume nitrates and phosphates as fuel

I’ve never tried phyto but imo adding consumers and food is always a good approach. I’m skeptical how much it will impact no3 and po4, however?

 

[MikeyZo]

I’ve never tried phyto but imo adding consumers and food is always a good approach. I’m skeptical how much it will impact no3 and po4, however?

Well that was why I bought the extra nitrate additive. Just in case, I’m not really overly worried about how much it consumes my phosphate. But if there is a sudden huge dip in nitrate, at least I have a back up plan for it.

 

[bubbgee]

Brightwell Phosphate-E is not working? I do half dose and it drops my Phosphates in half. It should be super effective. Especially if you're using in combination with GFO.

Something is introducing phosphates in the tank (usually RODI water when the filters are failing) or pellet food and Reef Roids. I'd find the source first at this point before focusing on removal.

 

[MikeyZo]

Brightwell Phosphate-E is not working? I do half dose and it drops my Phosphates in half. It should be super effective. Especially if you're using in combination with GFO.

Something is introducing phosphates in the tank (usually RODI water when the filters are failing) or pellet food and Reef Roids. I'd find the source first at this point before focusing on removal.

The tank has minimum evaporation due to the hood so I don’t use much RO and I’ve been using premixed imagitarium water. granted I never tested their water out of the box. Im actually going to switch to nutra sea for now until I start mixing my own. I think Imag’s water is a little high on alkalinity. And I thought pellets also so I cut them out a few weeks ago. And I haven’t used reef roids.

 

[bubbgee]

imagitarium water -- I used it.. it's just lightly filtered sea water. I did test that for phosphates and might be your source.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Rowaphos can be aggressive. Assure you are not getting false readings before addressing. While GFO is good at reduction, it can be too quickly. Product such as chemipure blue does this gradually and safely.
First recourse is to identify cause then remedy. Some causes are:
- Overfeeding
- lack of maintenance
- using salt mix high in phosphate
- Use of tap water opposed to RODI water
- something decaying in tank (food or feces)
- False readings - If you have high po4 and no algae- Should raise question

Some things to lower are :
Water changes
Macroalgae
Red Sea po4 reduce
Lessen Feedings and amounts
Add mechanical filtration
Add algae scrubber
Add limewater

 

[Dom]

Yeah so I’ve been using the Hanna colorimeter. I thought maybe it was off. They sell a calibration test kit that has a 0ppm vial and another vial with that has a certified value with it. Mine with perfect. So it’s definitely not the test kit.

The thought of it leeching from the rocks definitely crossed my mind. I’m thinking of taking the skimmer out of chamber 2 for now and using gfo. Which brand do you recommend? I’ve heard mixed reviews about kolar and BRS being overly dusty.

I ran PhosGuard for about 8 weeks. My PO4 dropped from around .9 to .03. But I stopped using it as I came to understand that it puts aluminum in your water.

Now I have a Santa Monica Surf 4x running.

 

[MikeyZo]

.

Rowaphos can be aggressive. Assure you are not getting false readings before addressing. While GFO is good at reduction, it can be too quickly. Product such as chemipure blue does this gradually and safely.
First recourse is to identify cause then remedy. Some causes are:
- Overfeeding
- lack of maintenance
- using salt mix high in phosphate
- Use of tap water opposed to RODI water
- something decaying in tank (food or feces)
- False readings - If you have high po4 and no algae- Should raise question

Some things to lower are :
Water changes
Macroalgae
Red Sea po4 reduce
Lessen Feedings and amounts
Add mechanical filtration
Add algae scrubber
Add limewater

So I luve already ruled Out the tester. It’s not overfeeding or lack of maintenance. And unless the premixed imagitarium is high in po4 (whcih may be, I’m not gonna bother checking since I’m switching to Nutra Sea but I’ll check theirs beforehand), it’s not the water, or the RO or anything decaying.

I could put macro in the DT (it’s a Biocube) I can’t add more mechanical filtration or a scrubber without totally altering the hood which I’m not about to do… so it’s leave the blue in and see what happens or keep doing water changes hoping it will drop…

Never tried Red Sea po4 reduce but from what I see it also drops nitrate id have to be careful. And if Phosphat-E didn’t work I’m not sure that would.