Po4 will not go down no matter what!

[Mr.Weathers]

Ok so I have a 125gal 6ft with 2 25gal tanks plumbed together to form my sump. I have one of the 25gals filled up with macro while the other holds my socks, skimmer, and reactors. I have a deep sand bed and ALOT of rock. So the story starts when I dropped 2 grand on coral at once and started using reef roids…after losing all my coral pretty much I have been fighting this battle which has been months. I’ve used rowaphos and several other types of gfo in my reactor and I only see very small changes. 2 weeks ago I got phosphate e and it seemed to drop my po4 the most but still nowhere close. My po4 is staying .80ppm or higher. We cut back on feedings immensely with no progression at all. I’m just so tired of fighting this. I haven’t been able to get anymore coral because of this. Any help would be greatly appreciated..I can send videos of the setup in private messages or something if needed.

 

[Dkmoo]

Need some more history-
1) how old is tank
2) did you start with dry rocks.
3) when did you add the 2grand of coral and when did start to die
4)how many months since they died have you been battling the po4 issue

 

[brandon429]

Are you fighting an invasion battle or loss of corals, or is the battle solely for parameters and you’ve had your water sampled on two different po4 kits for a read average

 

[attiland]

Is 0.8 ppm phosphate really that high?
some valid questions there from @Dkmoo

 

[amazongb]

Is 0.8 ppm phosphate really that high?
some valid questions there from @Dkmoo

My tank was inching towards .10 for a long time.. but tank looked fine so I let it be. I started with simple things - like changing filter socks every other day instead of waiting until they were caked.. fine tuned skimmer etc.. now I hover around .02 and .08.. but never worried when they were high. But, OP has corals dying, so maybe something happened quickly..

 

[brandon429]

We need a full tank picture of the tank for sure

 

[attiland]

We need a full tank picture of the tank for sure

While I agree this would help it always makes me smile whe somebody ask for it

 

[brandon429]

Is it funny if said poster has two hundred pages of fixing tanks logged by looking at before pics


we rarely get to see ten examples of tanks someone fixed by believing stated param levels, all the time, without variance. You may indeed have such a link…

 

[Mr.Weathers]

Need some more history-
1) how old is tank
2) did you start with dry rocks.
3) when did you add the 2grand of coral and when did start to die
4)how many months since they died have you been battling the po4 issue

1 year old. Started with live rock. Bought the whole system off a friend. The coral loss was 3-4 months ago.

 

[Mr.Weathers]

Message me on Facebook and I’ll send a video of our entire setup and sump. Won’t let me load videos here

 

[brandon429]

Live vs dry rock is a big boost for your micro populations thats good detail. Pics always show live rock as distinctly colored differently than new white rock systems.

it’s good you run heavy blues vs whites in my opinion. It doesn’t photograph as well but it’s less bleaching risk in my opinion, based on working with tanks online and not killing them.

 

[Mr.Weathers]

Is 0.8 ppm phosphate really that high?
some valid questions there from @Dkmoo

.80ppm lol

 

[brandon429]

That’s a fantastic system above average, big healthy fish your nutrients wouldn’t be my main focus but approaches vary.


the reason I don’t buy into param chasing is because rarely are test reads agreed upon when ran on a different kit with same sample and also because in parameter studies from huge master reefs…all ends of parameter measures are present. They don’t alter parameter goals to attain astounding growth in all settings.


you know for a fact that big perfect reefs exist in high phosphate and in low phosphate approaches, see any Rich Ross article.

 

[Mr.Weathers]

That’s a fantastic system above average, big healthy fish your nutrients wouldn’t be my main focus but approaches vary.

I can’t keep coral with my high po4 levels. I have my dosers and everything I’m ready to get back into getting some! My po4 is near 1ppm my gsp psp and shrooms do great lol

 

[Mr.Weathers]

This world wide coral Sunkist bounce is loving these po4 levels

 

[Mr.Weathers]

Are you fighting an invasion battle or loss of corals, or is the battle solely for parameters and you’ve had your water sampled on two different po4 kits for a read average

The corals are long gone. It’s been 3-4 months since they all died. I haven’t been able to get the po4 down still..

 

[brandon429]

That was along the line of what I like - that nice coral

amplifying what works and what’s selected for


and then when all surfaces are mouths vs anchoring space for plants and monera, the balance of invasion changes independent from params. One particular reason algae adheres to my tank walls and not the rocks when I’m export - lazy is because the rocks are completely fleshed in lps, and nobody reports algae problems where a brain coral mouth is. Algae attaches when and where it’s given permission to attach.

amplifying exclusion zones is a legit form of tank management, boosting that which you select well for. Maybe detailing params less might allow simple maturity and the feed in/out involved in supporting selected corals to change your ability to carry other species in time. Rich Ross specifically talks about how your levels are of no alarm, even long term. There are methods avail that do not have you ever test for phosphate and instead maintain a low detritus reef vs a sinked up sandbed design for example.


how have you verified your testing accuracy

 

[attiland]

.80ppm lol

I have interpreted the “.” In fron as lazy writing. I agree 80ppm is high.

 

[Mr.Weathers]

That was along the line of what I like - that nice coral

amplifying what works and what’s selected for


and then when all surfaces are mouths vs anchoring space for plants and monera, the balance of invasion changes independent from params. One particular reason algae adheres to my tank walls and not the rocks when I’m export - lazy is because the rocks are completely fleshed in lps, and nobody reports algae problems where a brain coral mouth is. Algae attaches when and where it’s given permission to attach.

amplifying exclusion zones is a legit form of tank management, boosting that which you select well for. Maybe detailing params less might allow simple maturity and the feed in/out involved in supporting selected corals to change your ability to carry other species in time. Rich Ross specifically talks about how your levels are of no alarm, even long term. There are methods avail that do not have you ever test for phosphate and instead maintain a low detritus reef vs a sinked up sandbed design for example.


how have you verified your testing accuracy

I noticed the half of my sump without sand had a pretty good amount of detritus. Having that just sitting in the tank would increase po4 reads right? I have giant filter socks and I only clean them once a week if not longer. Maybe that’s also why

 

[brandon429]

A few good posts in the chem forum study aerated sump detritus and found it pretty inert, but mud from the sandbed and packed within live rock crevices if applicable is in different states of decay due to oxygen restriction in some cases, those have more nutrients to offer it seems. There is enough nutrients bound in sandbed waste such that the official sand rinse thread relies on total clean rinsing in order to do the jobs we do, without killing tanks, and not another thread exists on the web for the jobs using an unrinsed method.


a strong portion of phosphate is bound in the rock, unavailable for test discovery, as well as inside other organics such that the reading above even if it matches another kit for baselining doesn’t reflect the true amounts of po4 in the system.


we have cycled lots and lots of tanks this size and we ease param concerns by not testing for nitrate and phosphate for six months after they start adding corals and managing waste by export vs storage. They focus on direct feeding of corals in concern vs adjusting params to hopefully boost corals while holding steady on current feed approaches. It’s at least handy to know other options exist that can easily turn around the tank, and it already looks good for its age anyway.