It's possible, yes. Hypo can kill some strains of Cryptocaryon (ich), but there have been found strains that are resistant to it. This is why hypo is a "sometimes works".
Poll / opinion is a tank ever considered ich free?
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Could be. 76 days fallow with fish in QT (with either chemical or TTM treatments) would be required to remove it for sure. No small task, but the only other option is ich management... No good options, sadly, once it's in your tank. :-(
Just in case you've not seen it, this is a great post to read on the topic.. I think ich management is going to be the route I'll go.
I saved my percula from velvet. 1 capful of 3% hydrogen peroxide in a goldfish bowl for 30 minutes a day saved him. Took 3 days to wipe it out. Regained full health. Was a black ocelaris.
I suspect velvet kills more for oxygeb starvation in the gills. H2o2 would kill them in the gills and give an o2 boost to the water.
I respectfully disagree. Break the life cycle, which is well documented, and you'll never need to worry about it.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164
jeff williams
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Totally disagree with ick in every tank!! If you qt everything that goes into a DT and proper qt practices are followed you will not have ick in your DT!!!
Sleepydoc
Valuable Member
Without meaning disrespect to those claiming a tank can never be ich free, doing so shows a lack of knowledge and understanding of the parasite’s life cycle and biology.
First, Ich is an obligate parasite that requires a fish host for part of it’s life cycle, so by definition any tank that does not have fish in it is ich free. So then the question becomes do all fish carry ich and can ich be completly eradicated from a fish that does carry it? I think it’s pretty clear that no, not every fish carries ich. I would argue that people who argue the contrary and give examples of ich outbreaks in their aquarium are guilty of poor quarantine and prophylaxis practices. If you dont’ quarantine and/or eliminate ich in fish that you introduce to your system then yes, it’s likely that most/all of your fish are carrying ich, but that cannot be generalized to every fish in every tank. As far as eliminating ich, there are several well-documented treatments that can eradicate ich, so if you are going to argue that these are not effective then you need to address the large body of evidence showing that they are.
In terms of treatments, there are 3 (4) accepted treatments that can kill/remove ich:
Personally, I QT all new fish with Copper. Primarily because it also treats other diseases like velvet. Some fish do not tolerate Cu, so CP or tank transfer would be preferred in these cases.
First, Ich is an obligate parasite that requires a fish host for part of it’s life cycle, so by definition any tank that does not have fish in it is ich free. So then the question becomes do all fish carry ich and can ich be completly eradicated from a fish that does carry it? I think it’s pretty clear that no, not every fish carries ich. I would argue that people who argue the contrary and give examples of ich outbreaks in their aquarium are guilty of poor quarantine and prophylaxis practices. If you dont’ quarantine and/or eliminate ich in fish that you introduce to your system then yes, it’s likely that most/all of your fish are carrying ich, but that cannot be generalized to every fish in every tank. As far as eliminating ich, there are several well-documented treatments that can eradicate ich, so if you are going to argue that these are not effective then you need to address the large body of evidence showing that they are.
In terms of treatments, there are 3 (4) accepted treatments that can kill/remove ich:
- Copper
- Tank Transfer
- Chloroquine phosphate
- Hyposalinity
Personally, I QT all new fish with Copper. Primarily because it also treats other diseases like velvet. Some fish do not tolerate Cu, so CP or tank transfer would be preferred in these cases.
Crackem
Active Member
How come no one mentioned adding a cleanup crew without qt can add ich to your tank . I know someone said anything wet. But I didn’t have room for multiple qt tanks, so I gave up on Qt. I get sps shipments all the time. I just don’t have room to qt sps or if I wanted to add another snail to my tank.
I used to be all about eradicating ich until I realized the depth that has to be gone through to do it. All corals & cuc also have to be qt’ed for the proper time frame. Can’t have any fish in coral qt for pest control because if ich came in with coral, then your fish in coral qt now have ich. I now go by ich management.
Paul B
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You guys must have really good eyesight if you know if ich is there or not.
There's one now -------> . <-------- Oh wait, thats black ich. I really don't care and I know there is ich in my tank, at least I hope so because ich is needed in a system as well as velvet and all other diseases to keep the fish immune. A tank with no pathogens is not natural and the fish are always in danger of dying.
My fish are immune and have been for about 35 years, even my 26 year olds. I introduce ich all the time and I hope those little buggers are swimming around in there trying to figure out how to infect my fish. It must be very discouraging for them.
Have a great day
There's one now -------> . <-------- Oh wait, thats black ich. I really don't care and I know there is ich in my tank, at least I hope so because ich is needed in a system as well as velvet and all other diseases to keep the fish immune. A tank with no pathogens is not natural and the fish are always in danger of dying.
My fish are immune and have been for about 35 years, even my 26 year olds. I introduce ich all the time and I hope those little buggers are swimming around in there trying to figure out how to infect my fish. It must be very discouraging for them.
Have a great day
knowen87
Active Member
I did 12 weeks of fallow and tore apart my whole tank. My fish spent 4 weeks in copper and the rest of the time in regular salt water. I added no new fish/cuc/or coral. 1 month after putting them all back in, the ich was back. I am not a belivever that ich is in every tank but I worked really hard to no avail. I don't know what I am going to do. I am frustrated because of all that work and I am still managing ich. I am trying to think of how those fish could have gotten ich again.
my tank is 100% scientifically ich free. It hasn't had a fish in it for twelve years. only rocks n coral.
if we added an ich-free fish to my system, ich couldn't develop in the system it would have to be any other disease. To me, those facts really tell a reefkeeper how to control ich 100% of the time.
if we added an ich-free fish to my system, ich couldn't develop in the system it would have to be any other disease. To me, those facts really tell a reefkeeper how to control ich 100% of the time.
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Can we all agree on one point - that all & any LFS
Great writeup Sleepdoc.
I'd just like to add - as it happened to me - a juvenile Yellow Tangs will die in a QT tank that is being treated with Cupramine, even if the level of measurable copper is half the "dose". (week #3)
So if you are running a QT - and figure, since all you fish are out of the DT, you might as well kill two birds with one stone...QT some new fish at the same time.
Well I knew I would be running QT another 60+ days, I would get two more fish. A royal gramma and a yellow tang.
The tang was dead the next day.
I was doing 20% WC every second day - so no ammonia or other high levels of anything that would have killed the tang.
I did some research here on R2R and found some posts about it, but getting it out more is a good thing.
I am now tang-less, and feel like there's a hole in my life (tank) that needs to be filled. Send me old-school LOL (lots of love)
The DT is doing swimmingly now that QT is over.
Great writeup Sleepdoc.
I'd just like to add - as it happened to me - a juvenile Yellow Tangs will die in a QT tank that is being treated with Cupramine, even if the level of measurable copper is half the "dose". (week #3)
So if you are running a QT - and figure, since all you fish are out of the DT, you might as well kill two birds with one stone...QT some new fish at the same time.
Well I knew I would be running QT another 60+ days, I would get two more fish. A royal gramma and a yellow tang.
The tang was dead the next day.
I was doing 20% WC every second day - so no ammonia or other high levels of anything that would have killed the tang.
I did some research here on R2R and found some posts about it, but getting it out more is a good thing.
I am now tang-less, and feel like there's a hole in my life (tank) that needs to be filled. Send me old-school LOL (lots of love)
The DT is doing swimmingly now that QT is over.
I totally agree and would also claim to have a Ich free tank thanks to QT everything. It’s a lot of work and takes time but after loosing my favorite “black tang “ to ich 2 yr ago I never let any thing near it again without Q. When I lost the black tang I trusted a fellow AquaNerd that I expect had a ich free tank and I let his Powder Blue into the tank without QT. Now after a full cleaning my PB, my Achillies, my Gem tang and all the others are living happily in a Ich free tank... so trust no one - QT
Sleepydoc
Valuable Member
One other thing to note - there is evidence that isolated ich strains eventually die out, so if you have a tank that has had no new fish introduced for over a year, the ich may have died out on its own. To my knowledge, this is not well documented and would be difficult to rely on, but I would say that it’s likely that there are people who have had ich in their tank that the fish survived and has subsequently died out.
In terms of invertebrates and ich, keeping multiple separate quarantine tanks is a pain and not practical for many people. While it is possible to have tomonts adherent to a snail or the base of a coral frag, it is fairly unlikely. Since the range of hatch times for tomonts up to 72 days, true invertebrate quarantine would mean 10 weeks, something which isn’t practical for the majority of aquarists.
Ultimately, the only way to difinitively answer this question would likely be do do a PCR test for Cryptocaryon DNA, something I’m not sure even exists and isn’t likely to happen, regardless.
In terms of invertebrates and ich, keeping multiple separate quarantine tanks is a pain and not practical for many people. While it is possible to have tomonts adherent to a snail or the base of a coral frag, it is fairly unlikely. Since the range of hatch times for tomonts up to 72 days, true invertebrate quarantine would mean 10 weeks, something which isn’t practical for the majority of aquarists.
Ultimately, the only way to difinitively answer this question would likely be do do a PCR test for Cryptocaryon DNA, something I’m not sure even exists and isn’t likely to happen, regardless.
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
Anything wet and unquarantined going in the tank can do it. Cross contaminating with anything (like another tank with ich or velvet). In addition, if you treated your fish in copper and it became subtheraputic at all, it willrestart the 30 day clock. This includes water changes, make sure copper is in the water when you add it back.
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