Possible clownfish fluke?

[lightreefs]

Hi there,

I have a pair of clownfish that I suspect have flukes or are experiencing some other gill irritant. I have been noticing the male scratching on power heads for the last couple months and when I noticed the female starting to scratch, I dosed a few rounds of prazipro straight to the display tank. I believe I dosed 4-5 times over the course of about 3 weeks (though to be honest I should've kept better records and cannot say for sure what my precise dosing schedule was). I followed guidance posted by Jay in his Dosing Praziquantel article. I think I noticed improvement in the scratching symptoms, but that could honestly just be confirmation bias (I, again, should have taken better metrics to assess effectiveness).

Over the past week or so I've noticed that the male has been scratching more frequently (I notice him doing it at least a few times a night), and I've noticed the female starting to scratch on rocks sporadically as well as occasionally yawning (I notice a few times a night), head shaking (probably the least common symptom), and darting. Both of their respiratory rates may also be elevated, but I don't have the knowledge or clinical eye to judge that well. There have been no changes to their appetite, but I do wonder if the female has trouble swallowing sometimes (she's also picky, but sometimes it looks like she tries to swallow before spitting the food out).

I will upload a video under white lights below. I wasn't able to catch any scratching or any obvious head shaking, but I did catch the female yawning several times. I should also preface the video by saying that I think the fish come off as more lethargic than usual. The female likes to hangout in her cave when I sit at the tank. They also like to hangout near the top of the tank behind the return for the HOB refugium which appears to get a decent amount of flow from a nearby powerhead. I should also mention that I dose AFR, CoralAmino, and Phosphat-e daily. I do not run filter socks or rollers, and I know the precipitate of lanthanum chloride and phosphate can cause breathing issues in some fish, so I have stopped dosing Phosphat-e in the past few days.

If the fish medics think flukes are the likely culprit, my plan was to treat the fish using a praziquantel bath for 6 hours and then transfer to a clean observation tank while the DT runs fallow for 30 days. I figured this would be preferable re-dosing the DT due to the bacterial metabolic rate of praziquantel and prazipro's solvent that persists for months following treatment. I've also considered forgoing the prazipro bath and running hyposalinity in the observation tank, but I don't have a spare ATO lying around to keep salinity from creeping up and restarting the clock.

Thanks in advance!

(The videos below were all taken within the same 10 minute period. I was having difficulty uploading them to YouTube, but if you're unable to see them I will try again)


Possible male darting

Female yawn

Possible female head shaking

Female moves to position behind refugium return

Female yawn and possible female darting

Possible female head shaking

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi there,

I have a pair of clownfish that I suspect have flukes or are experiencing some other gill irritant. I have been noticing the male scratching on power heads for the last couple months and when I noticed the female starting to scratch, I dosed a few rounds of prazipro straight to the display tank. I believe I dosed 4-5 times over the course of about 3 weeks (though to be honest I should've kept better records and cannot say for sure what my precise dosing schedule was). I followed guidance posted by Jay in his Dosing Praziquantel article. I think I noticed improvement in the scratching symptoms, but that could honestly just be confirmation bias (I, again, should have taken better metrics to assess effectiveness).

Over the past week or so I've noticed that the male has been scratching more frequently (I notice him doing it at least a few times a night), and I've noticed the female starting to scratch on rocks sporadically as well as occasionally yawning (I notice a few times a night), head shaking (probably the least common symptom), and darting. Both of their respiratory rates may also be elevated, but I don't have the knowledge or clinical eye to judge that well. There have been no changes to their appetite, but I do wonder if the female has trouble swallowing sometimes (she's also picky, but sometimes it looks like she tries to swallow before spitting the food out).

I will upload a video under white lights below. I wasn't able to catch any scratching or any obvious head shaking, but I did catch the female yawning several times. I should also preface the video by saying that I think the fish come off as more lethargic than usual. The female likes to hangout in her cave when I sit at the tank. They also like to hangout near the top of the tank behind the return for the HOB refugium which appears to get a decent amount of flow from a nearby powerhead. I should also mention that I dose AFR, CoralAmino, and Phosphat-e daily. I do not run filter socks or rollers, and I know the precipitate of lanthanum chloride and phosphate can cause breathing issues in some fish, so I have stopped dosing Phosphat-e in the past few days.

If the fish medics think flukes are the likely culprit, my plan was to treat the fish using a praziquantel bath for 6 hours and then transfer to a clean observation tank while the DT runs fallow for 30 days. I figured this would be preferable re-dosing the DT due to the bacterial metabolic rate of praziquantel and prazipro's solvent that persists for months following treatment. I've also considered forgoing the prazipro bath and running hyposalinity in the observation tank, but I don't have a spare ATO lying around to keep salinity from creeping up and restarting the clock.

Thanks in advance!

(The videos below were all taken within the same 10 minute period. I was having difficulty uploading them to YouTube, but if you're unable to see them I will try again)


Possible male darting

Female yawn

Possible female head shaking

Female moves to position behind refugium return

Female yawn and possible female darting

Possible female head shaking

Clowns rarely if ever get flukes but looks to be tremors from aggression or mating

 

[lightreefs]

Hi there,

I have a pair of clownfish that I suspect have flukes or are experiencing some other gill irritant. I have been noticing the male scratching on power heads for the last couple months and when I noticed the female starting to scratch, I dosed a few rounds of prazipro straight to the display tank. I believe I dosed 4-5 times over the course of about 3 weeks (though to be honest I should've kept better records and cannot say for sure what my precise dosing schedule was). I followed guidance posted by Jay in his Dosing Praziquantel article. I think I noticed improvement in the scratching symptoms, but that could honestly just be confirmation bias (I, again, should have taken better metrics to assess effectiveness).

Over the past week or so I've noticed that the male has been scratching more frequently (I notice him doing it at least a few times a night), and I've noticed the female starting to scratch on rocks sporadically as well as occasionally yawning (I notice a few times a night), head shaking (probably the least common symptom), and darting. Both of their respiratory rates may also be elevated, but I don't have the knowledge or clinical eye to judge that well. There have been no changes to their appetite, but I do wonder if the female has trouble swallowing sometimes (she's also picky, but sometimes it looks like she tries to swallow before spitting the food out).

I will upload a video under white lights below. I wasn't able to catch any scratching or any obvious head shaking, but I did catch the female yawning several times. I should also preface the video by saying that I think the fish come off as more lethargic than usual. The female likes to hangout in her cave when I sit at the tank. They also like to hangout near the top of the tank behind the return for the HOB refugium which appears to get a decent amount of flow from a nearby powerhead. I should also mention that I dose AFR, CoralAmino, and Phosphat-e daily. I do not run filter socks or rollers, and I know the precipitate of lanthanum chloride and phosphate can cause breathing issues in some fish, so I have stopped dosing Phosphat-e in the past few days.

If the fish medics think flukes are the likely culprit, my plan was to treat the fish using a praziquantel bath for 6 hours and then transfer to a clean observation tank while the DT runs fallow for 30 days. I figured this would be preferable re-dosing the DT due to the bacterial metabolic rate of praziquantel and prazipro's solvent that persists for months following treatment. I've also considered forgoing the prazipro bath and running hyposalinity in the observation tank, but I don't have a spare ATO lying around to keep salinity from creeping up and restarting the clock.

Thanks in advance!

(The videos below were all taken within the same 10 minute period. I was having difficulty uploading them to YouTube, but if you're unable to see them I will try again)


Possible male darting

Female yawn

Possible female head shaking

Female moves to position behind refugium return

Female yawn and possible female darting

Possible female head shaking

Clowns rarely if ever get flukes but looks to be tremors from aggression or mating

Gotcha. Thanks for taking a look. Any concern about the daily scratching from the male that I described but wasn’t able to capture on video? I kind of figured it might just be clowns being weird in the absence of other clear symptoms. I can try to catch it on video tonight if helpful

 

[Uncle99]

Are you absolutely sure you have a “pair” and not just two clowns?

It’s hard to judge the size of each in the video..

 

[lightreefs]

Are you absolutely sure you have a “pair” and not just two clowns?

I’m not entirely sure of the indicators that they would be fully paired, so no.

I’ve had them about 8 months and have watched aggression increase initially and then go down as the male has shown submission through twitching and the female has grown larger. The female will still assert her dominance, but she is much more tolerant of the male than she was at first, and the male never fights back. She even allows him to share her little cave from time to time.

Does their status as a proper “pair” impact your interpretation of the behaviors present in the video?

Edit: I should add that while not enormous, their size difference is more noticeable in-person than in the video

 

[vetteguy53081]

I’m not entirely sure of the indicators that they would be fully paired, so no.

I’ve had them about 8 months and have watched aggression increase initially and then go down as the male has shown submission through twitching and the female has grown larger. The female will still assert her dominance, but she is much more tolerant of the male than she was at first, and the male never fights back. She even allows him to share her little cave from time to time.

Does their status as a proper “pair” impact your interpretation of the behaviors present in the video?

Edit: I should add that while not enormous, their size difference is more noticeable in-person than in the video

Im convinced there is a male and female with male often smaller because the female hogs all the food and succumbs to the female which is the behavior you are seeing per video

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi there,

I have a pair of clownfish that I suspect have flukes or are experiencing some other gill irritant. I have been noticing the male scratching on power heads for the last couple months and when I noticed the female starting to scratch, I dosed a few rounds of prazipro straight to the display tank. I believe I dosed 4-5 times over the course of about 3 weeks (though to be honest I should've kept better records and cannot say for sure what my precise dosing schedule was). I followed guidance posted by Jay in his Dosing Praziquantel article. I think I noticed improvement in the scratching symptoms, but that could honestly just be confirmation bias (I, again, should have taken better metrics to assess effectiveness).

Over the past week or so I've noticed that the male has been scratching more frequently (I notice him doing it at least a few times a night), and I've noticed the female starting to scratch on rocks sporadically as well as occasionally yawning (I notice a few times a night), head shaking (probably the least common symptom), and darting. Both of their respiratory rates may also be elevated, but I don't have the knowledge or clinical eye to judge that well. There have been no changes to their appetite, but I do wonder if the female has trouble swallowing sometimes (she's also picky, but sometimes it looks like she tries to swallow before spitting the food out).

I will upload a video under white lights below. I wasn't able to catch any scratching or any obvious head shaking, but I did catch the female yawning several times. I should also preface the video by saying that I think the fish come off as more lethargic than usual. The female likes to hangout in her cave when I sit at the tank. They also like to hangout near the top of the tank behind the return for the HOB refugium which appears to get a decent amount of flow from a nearby powerhead. I should also mention that I dose AFR, CoralAmino, and Phosphat-e daily. I do not run filter socks or rollers, and I know the precipitate of lanthanum chloride and phosphate can cause breathing issues in some fish, so I have stopped dosing Phosphat-e in the past few days.

If the fish medics think flukes are the likely culprit, my plan was to treat the fish using a praziquantel bath for 6 hours and then transfer to a clean observation tank while the DT runs fallow for 30 days. I figured this would be preferable re-dosing the DT due to the bacterial metabolic rate of praziquantel and prazipro's solvent that persists for months following treatment. I've also considered forgoing the prazipro bath and running hyposalinity in the observation tank, but I don't have a spare ATO lying around to keep salinity from creeping up and restarting the clock.

Thanks in advance!

(The videos below were all taken within the same 10 minute period. I was having difficulty uploading them to YouTube, but if you're unable to see them I will try again)


Possible male darting

Female yawn

Possible female head shaking

Female moves to position behind refugium return

Female yawn and possible female darting

Possible female head shaking

As mentioned, clownfish don't get flukes as often as many other fish do. I'm not seeing definitive signs of flukes here, I agree, it could be aggression / pairing activity.

One thing though - having dosed your DT with prazi that many times means that you have a pretty good chance that the prazi-consuming bacteria is present. That means that subsequent prazi doses aren't going to work well.

If you *do* decide to treat for flukes, I would suggest that you move all fish to a well established treatment tank, and run them through hyposalinity. the flukes in your fishless display will die out in that time.