Possible Palytoxin Poisoning

[samnaz]

I won’t even touch a coral without gloves on. I’m too afraid of coming in contact with something that might sting, poke, bite, etc. My fear is certainly irrational but I don’t care. I just wear the gloves.

 

[um02122]

In our hobby, it is a distinct possibility to get in direct contact with some nasty substances.
In addition to palytoxin, I would mention tetrodotoxin (neurotoxin, present in the sand-sifting starfish, Astropecten polyacanthus).

Clearly there are cases of poisoning and they are so rare that it is unlikely to raise awareness in the medical profession. It is expected that if there is suspicion of poisoning with an unknown substance, the clinician will contact a poison center for advice. They should have access to any information, regardless of how scarce.

It is up to us hobbyists to clearly document any instances of poisoning.
It helps to know the age, co-morbidities, any acute ilnesses and any current treatments when investigating this claims.

 

[rosshamsandwich]

I won’t even touch a coral without gloves on. I’m too afraid of coming in contact with something that might sting, poke, bite, etc. My fear is certainly irrational but I don’t care. I just wear the gloves.

That's pretty dang smart. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I had a disgusting infection from a vermetid snail poking me deep like a needle. It took over 3 months to heal, and I still have scars It would have been prevented if I had adopted your protocols.

 

[Daltrey]

I'm not taking any chances.

 

[Fyveonit]

In all honesty this is what I use to play it safe when I frag palys and zoas. Let's me get may face close for small cuts without having to fear an aerosol spray or eye contact.

And I get to reference Breaking Bad while putting it on around people

 

[MadMax]

The irony is that I instinctively knew not to handle the polyps. I was handling the live rock quite gingerly from the opposite "clean" end. What got me into trouble was the misting effect, whereas, while I was spraying down the rocks with hot water, the vapors carried the toxin into my lungs as I breathed overhead.

 

[Fyveonit]

The irony is that I instinctively knew not to handle the polyps. I was handling the live rock quite gingerly from the opposite "clean" end. What got me into trouble was the misting effect, whereas, while I was spraying down the rocks with hot water, the vapors carried the toxin into my lungs as I breathed overhead.

Which is exactly why I got the respirator myself. I am not so worried about skin or micro abrasion contact.

But the coral mouths are so small, that when they spit...the mist makes the "Waterborne" Palytoxin Airborne in a way. It's always the one you never suspect that gets you.

 

[MadMax]

double post

 

[MadMax]

URGENT!

Here are the two case reports I found/printed and took to the hospital with me (my wife gave it to the ICU doctors).

I implore all hobbyists to read these articles in their entirety, especially the first one as its source is from an actual medical journal; the descriptions are hauntingly familiar for me to read now (after the fact):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5099280/

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blo...-personal-experience-with-palytoxin-poisoning

Sadly my lungs have likely sustained permanent damage (to what degree is yet to be determined) but hopefully this information will find its way into enough people's hands and passed on...and on.

 

[MadMax]

Which is exactly why I got the respirator myself. I am not so worried about skin or micro abrasion contact.

But the coral mouths are so small, that when they spit...the mist makes the "Waterborne" Palytoxin Airborne in a way. It's always the one you never suspect that gets you.

There are more ironies in this case than I can count.
I was a Commercial Aircraft Painter for Boeing (formerly McDonnell Douglas) for many years.
In cleaning/abrading/alodining/sealing/priming/painting these enormous aircraft, I was exposed to some of the most toxic and carcinogenic substances used in the industrial world. We wore equipment more akin to that of an astronaut's than any other description: full oxygen-supplied upper hood, full body jump suit, gloves (and glove liners) impermeable to caustic solvents, similar foot wear, full body harness, hardhat, etc. (list goes on and on). Point is......
I was trained, certified, and experienced in all aspects of hazardous materials!
yet this still happened to a guy like me. Sometimes all it takes is one small moment of carelessness.

 

[Fyveonit]

Amen to that!

I am about as accident prone as Tim The Toolman Taylor...Just look at that profile pic...My other hobby is falling down on a childrens toy...I can expect to fall down when I am trying a new trick.

But the injuries that seem to be the worst is when I think nothing is going to go wrong.

 

[MadMax]

I once tried skateboarding in a friends backyard (empty) swimming pool......

ONCE!

 

[Fyveonit]

My first and last attempt at Snowboarding ended with a flail chest

 

[AK_Reef]

We have had a few instances in the reefing community up in alaska. Here's a link to the CDC report. If I remember correctly the instances up here were believed to be from a specific brown nuisance paly that people were trying to remove from liverock. I was always curious if this is specific to one species, a few or all zoanthids.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6431a4.htm

 

[Darryl]

;Wideyed

 

[Rakie]

Clearly there are cases of poisoning and they are so rare that it is unlikely to raise awareness in the medical profession.

Not too long ago the keepers of venomous snakes were considered the go-to people for hospitals when it came to information on non-native snake bites -- Not because the doctors are oblivious to snakes, but because when a guy is bitten by a gaboon viper, the odds of the local ER having any clue as to it's toxin makeup, or having a saharan rainforest pit vipers antivenom on standby is practically zero. The hobbiest (typically inundated in the hobby) is typically more knowledgeable and connected. And when moments matter -- At the least, they can point you in the right direction. Or have life-saving anti venom in their venom fridge. Because when you have snakes from regions of the world where collection means a 3 day boat ride up a river into contested warloard territory.. You bet your sweet butt nobody has antivenom unless you buy it yourself.

In the exotic snake hobby, the keeper tells doctors the venom makeup, including what it's similar to. What type of toxin it is. What it will do to you. And have their own antivenom on standby for each species of snake they own (Major major money, when some of these snakes almost never come in contact with human beings).

Why am I bringing this up -- Because we can't rely on doctors to know this stuff with exceptionally uncommon animals from locations all over the globe. As OP said, telling the doctors they may think he's crazy.

This is the kind of information we as reef keepers need to know.

As for me -- Twice while cutting zoas/palys I got a raging headache. I now cut them outside.

 

[Fyveonit]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2525493/

IT may also be attributed to a Dinoflagellate that co-exists with Palys

 

[Clr]

I had a similar thing happen, same symptoms, and the ER thought I was crazy. Grandis palys will never be in one of my tanks again ! Lol

 

[python73]

I just happened across this last night. Not a fan of the music/lead in for each video but the actual presentation is excellent. Contains the Anthony Calfo paly stories which I've heard first hand. I think Steve edges Anthony for bad outcome aquarium situations, but not by much. And it's a prize nobody wants to claim.

 

[TheLadyCrash]

I won’t even touch a coral without gloves on. I’m too afraid of coming in contact with something that might sting, poke, bite, etc. My fear is certainly irrational but I don’t care. I just wear the gloves.

Yep, this is me! I have autoimmune issues so I always glove up just in case!