Possible Palytoxin Poisoning

Lbrod126

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Hey everyone,

I recently bought a nice birds nest paradise colony, I acclimated the coral in the bag and then did a drip acclamation into a bucket and then moved it into another bucket with water straight from the tank. While doing the rinse in the third bucket I noticed some hitchhikers on board there were 2 bristle worms and a fire worm but I used a tooth pick to get into the tiny crevices to get them out. After I felt that the birds nest was adequately free of parasites and was fully acclimated I placed it into the main display all while doing this I did use gloves the entire time. Shortly after I had a metallic taste in my mouth, light headed, dizzy, chills as well as after I throughly washed my hands under warm water and soap they felt as if they were vibrating for a short amount of time. I inspected the birds nest again from within the tank and thats when I noticed what appears to be one small brown palythoa hitch hiker in the center of the colony. I went to the ER because I do know the severity of palytoxin, after I was seen they ran a few test and the doctors and nurses all looked at me like I was crazy.
I had told them that this is going to sound strange and that they probably wont know what this is and that I may have gotten palytoxin poisoning while cleaning my corals. They did some research and contacted poison control who was also stumped at what this was and had to have some time to research it. They checked my temp and it was normal, my heart rate was normal about 60 bpm and blood pressure was good. They kept me monitored for about 4 hours and also did some blood tests that came back with an elevated reading of rhabdomyolysis at 400, and did an EKG that came back normal. I slept for the most part in the ER and started to feel better but was not given or prescribed anything and told to hydrate due to the rhabdo. Still feeling a little light headed with intermittent chills and the metallic taste comes and goes. Has anyone had similar symptoms, or any information that could help I do know a bit on the topic but very few resources of treatment and severity of each case as I don't feel as bad as some of the other articles I have read. I believe while digging the parasites out with the toothpick that the paly maybe have squirted me in the mouth or something not entirely sure as I did not even see it tucked into its tiny hole until it popped out in the tank. I guess I will always be wearing glasses and face mask even when not working with Zoas or palys because you never know who is truly hitch hiking on your coral. Just filling in what happen to me in hopes it will help anyone else out as well if anyone has any advice or personal experience in this anything helps.

Thanks everyone!
 

DLHDesign

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First; welcome to R2R!

Glad everything is okay and that there were no serious complications - water-born toxins (and as I'm sure you know from the sound of it) are no joke! You get a picture of the paly, by chance?
 
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Lbrod126

Lbrod126

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First; welcome to R2R!

Glad everything is okay and that there were no serious complications - water-born toxins (and as I'm sure you know from the sound of it) are no joke! You get a picture of the paly, by chance?

I tried to get it from my phone but it is really hidden in the colony I will try and get one with my DSLR and upload it when it shows its face again. Yeah they really are no joke but definitely feeling a lot better and also glad there are no serious complications. Also did not know that rhabdo was an effect of palytoxin learn something new just not the way I wanted to lol.
 
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Lbrod126

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I tried to get it from my phone but it is really hidden in the colony I will try and get one with my DSLR and upload it when it shows its face again. Yeah they really are no joke but definitely feeling a lot better and also glad there are no serious complications. Also did not know that rhabdo was an effect of palytoxin learn something new just not the way I wanted to lol.
Also thanks for the welcome!
 

Fyveonit

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You said you think the Paly squirted you in the mouth? That's something I feel you would know for sure. Not calling you out, but if any coral / frag spit into my mouth, it would kinda be a drop everything moment...One to remember. I also frag often, and am one to get up close and personal while I work / draw etc.

I have had a close call after fragging some without gloves once I feel. Somewhat like you described but more heavy on respiratory problems. I think the light-headedness and rest came from sudden onset panic / Adrenaline and trouble breathing.

I was talking to the guy I was fragging the stuff for, and as I was gluing them to the rubble...it was if I was punched in the gut. Lost all my air for just a millisecond or so. Enough to make me pause and try and think about what just happened to me..Which then made everything awkward with the dude getting corals, as I stopped answering his question, and started running self diagnostics in my head. Too timid to tell anyone in the room yet.

I have a respirator mask and case of nitrile gloves now b/c I still plan to frag haha.
 
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Lbrod126

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You said you think the Paly squirted you in the mouth? That's something I feel you would know for sure. Not calling you out, but if any coral / frag spit into my mouth, it would kinda be a drop everything moment...One to remember

I did not even know there was a Paly on the on the coral when dipping it and cleaning it. Yes some water off the coral got on me while I was cleaning. I always use gloves but with certain corals I am a little more laid back and at ease if water get on me ect. I was just stating I do not know how the palytoxin would have gotten into my system, if it was a distinct paly mucus shot to the face than yes arguably I would have realized it and would have been a drop everything moment. My reasoning for that statement is I have gloves on no cuts on my arms and no eye irritation so how else would have it entered my blood stream as well if I had a cut on the arm it would have irritated the area as well. I don't know if that makes more sense to you but its more of a I have no other explanation how I got it.
 
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Lbrod126

Lbrod126

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You said you think the Paly squirted you in the mouth? That's something I feel you would know for sure. Not calling you out, but if any coral / frag spit into my mouth, it would kinda be a drop everything moment...One to remember. I also frag often, and am one to get up close and personal while I work / draw etc.

I have had a close call after fragging some without gloves once I feel. Somewhat like you described but more heavy on respiratory problems. I think the light-headedness and rest came from sudden onset panic / Adrenaline and trouble breathing.

I was talking to the guy I was fragging the stuff for, and as I was gluing them to the rubble...it was if I was punched in the gut. Lost all my air for just a millisecond or so. Enough to make me pause and try and think about what just happened to me..Which then made everything awkward with the dude getting corals, as I stopped answering his question, and started running self diagnostics in my head. Too timid to tell anyone in the room yet.

I have a respirator mask and case of nitrile gloves now b/c I still plan to frag haha.

Sorry didn't see the last part of your message. Yeah I don't blame you, I did the same thing when these symptoms started up just thinking ok what could it of been and I immediately thought palytoxin ran back to the tank and low and behold paly perched right in the middle of the nest. Well glad everything worked out for you dude!
 

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If your myoglobin was 400ng/ml, then yes hydrate very well and watch for dark tea colored urine.

Tell your doctor if you have dark tea colored urine, flank pain, wide spread muscle pain, or muscle spasms.
 
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Lbrod126

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If your myoglobin was 400ng/ml, then yes hydrate very well and watch for dark tea colored urine.

Tell your doctor if you have dark tea colored urine, flank pain, wide spread muscle pain, or muscle spasms.
Thanks I definitely will! My wife is a nurse so she pretty much stays on top of me when it comes to anything medical, so no saying ehh ill be alright lol
 

Katrina71

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Glad you're ok. I guess my philosophy is you know your body better than anyone else. If something feels off... better safe than sorry.
 

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If your myoglobin was 400ng/ml, then yes hydrate very well and watch for dark tea colored urine.

Tell your doctor if you have dark tea colored urine, flank pain, wide spread muscle pain, or muscle spasms.

My guess is it was an elevated CK at 400. No reason to order serum or urine myoglobin based on those symptoms. Some shops still get routine CKs for cardiac work up. If CK was 400, though high, not true rhabdo.
 

Fyveonit

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I did not even know there was a Paly on the on the coral when dipping it and cleaning it. Yes some water off the coral got on me while I was cleaning. I always use gloves but with certain corals I am a little more laid back and at ease if water get on me ect. I was just stating I do not know how the palytoxin would have gotten into my system, if it was a distinct paly mucus shot to the face than yes arguably I would have realized it and would have been a drop everything moment. My reasoning for that statement is I have gloves on no cuts on my arms and no eye irritation so how else would have it entered my blood stream as well if I had a cut on the arm it would have irritated the area as well. I don't know if that makes more sense to you but its more of a I have no other explanation how I got it.

Getting some water on you and something squirting into your mouth are pretty different. Like someone spitting on you or in your mouth...HUGE difference.
 

Kremis

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I was fragging zoas and I got some squirted on my face close to my left eye. I instantly took a shower, and that area of my face still got all swollen, eyes turned red and got swollen, stuffy nose for like half an hour
 

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Wow, I was thinking of fragging up a large Purple Death Paly colony soon- glad I read this.
fragging palys is still ok, just be careful. take precautions like wear goggles, wash hands, and if you are really cautios you could wear a mask to prevent any getting in your mouth
 

MadMax

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I spent three days in the ICU at Huntington Beach Hospital due to Palytoxin Inhalation. This just last week!
Fortunately I was conscious enough to print out some documents before leaving for the emergency room. Lungs were filled with mucus, Breathing was extremely labored, Light headed, chills set on in the car....by the time I reached the admissions doors I was in uncontrollable convulsions. (I don't recall a metallic taste through). I'm now at home at still recovering after a harrowing ordeal. This stuff is no joking matter.
I've been in the hobby for nearly 20 years and ran a professional trade show as well. If it can happen to me it can certainly happen to anyone. CDC took blood work (at least 6 times) but I have no idea what information they derived from all of this. I will probably write up a more detailed story for all once I recover.
Scared wasn't the word...I felt like I was fighting for my life.
 

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Wow, I was thinking of fragging up a large Purple Death Paly colony soon- glad I read this.

Another good method would to try and frag them underwater. You are going to be most vulnerable when cutting the frags off the rocks they are attached to. If you are able to do this in a bucket or tank then I believe it would lessen your risk. If you happen to have underwater superglue and can do that part underwater then you'd be home free. That's just my 2¢ though.
 

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I spent three days in the ICU at Huntington Beach Hospital due to Palytoxin Inhalation. This just last week!
Fortunately I was conscious enough to print out some documents before leaving for the emergency room. Lungs were filled with mucus, Breathing was extremely labored, Light headed, chills set on in the car....by the time I reached the admissions doors I was in uncontrollable convulsions. (I don't recall a metallic taste through). I'm now at home at still recovering after a harrowing ordeal. This stuff is no joking matter.
I've been in the hobby for nearly 20 years and ran a professional trade show as well. If it can happen to me it can certainly happen to anyone. CDC took blood work (at least 6 times) but I have no idea what information they derived from all of this. I will probably write up a more detailed story for all once I recover.
Scared wasn't the word...I felt like I was fighting for my life.
Yikes glad you're okay! A big reason why I will never have Palys in my tanks.
 

MadMax

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Another good method would to try and frag them underwater. You are going to be most vulnerable when cutting the frags off the rocks they are attached to. If you are able to do this in a bucket or tank then I believe it would lessen your risk. If you happen to have underwater superglue and can do that part underwater then you'd be home free. That's just my 2¢ though.

Water only renders the proteins mobile, it doesn't dilute them as you might think. Placing healthy hands in the water is rarely harmful but if you have any cuts or abrasions (without gloves) the risk is elevated exponentially. I've read somewhere (only in passing) that chlorine bleach neutralizes the toxin but that is in no way confirmed.
 

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