Potassium nitrate (Spectracide stump remover) dosing steps

[The-Russ]

This thread is great

I like this thread too.

I know I don't know what I'm doing and feel like most here are in the same boat. We experiment together, share our experiences, and try to figure it out what works, one post at a time.

 

[twilliard]

Tests are showing that using potassium nitrate is not significantly increasing potassium results per Triton.

 

[jumplittlechloe]

Tests are showing that using potassium nitrate is not significantly increasing potassium results per Triton.

If this is true then that potentially rules out one of the possible reasons for burnt tips on my SPS:

1. Quick increase of K+ (potassium)
2. Quick drop in PO4
3. High KH
4. toxins leach into the system

I do not know what the potassium nitrate changed in the system but it has caused some issues. Could the potential drop in PO4 lead to the cyano outbreak and SPS tip recession?

 

[twilliard]

If this is true then that potentially rules out one of the possible reasons for burnt tips on my SPS:

1. Quick increase of K+ (potassium)
2. Quick drop in PO4
3. High KH
4. toxins leach into the system

I do not know what the potassium nitrate changed in the system but it has caused some issues. Could the potential drop in PO4 lead to the cyano outbreak and SPS tip recession?

@Russ265 thoughts?

 

[Diesel]

I am already dosing products from the Aquaforest line with includes a bacteria source. I think there are probably four reasons for burnt tips on SPS:

1. Quick increase of K+ (potassium)
2. Quick drop in PO4
3. High KH
4. toxins leach into the system

My KH is in line 7.4dkh and I don't think there are any toxins. I think that dosing potassium nitrate has caused 1 or 2. Visually I can see PO4 has changed (less algae on glass and rock). I do not have a K test so I am not sure what that number may be.

Could the potential drop in PO4 lead to the cyano outbreak?

What kind of light do you run?
Do you run a reactor with activated carbon in there?
Yes it could be high ALK, what are your test results on ALK, CAL?

 

[Russ265]

@Russ265 thoughts?

no po4 with high alk will do the same to the tips as no no3 and high alk.

id keep alk below 8 until it is resolved

 

[twilliard]

Thanks guys!

 

[jumplittlechloe]

What kind of light do you run?
Do you run a reactor with activated carbon in there?
Yes it could be high ALK, what are your test results on ALK, CAL?

Lighting is led/t5 and I have a reactor with zeolites and activated carbon. My alk has not changed 7.4dkh and cal is 420. I tested last night and nitrate is 2.5 PO4 is harder to read maybe .02 to .04

Here is what I think happened. I have a very low bioload in the tank (copperband, clown, and goby). Add to that a strong skimmer and the zeolites with MarinePure, carbon/bacteria dosing and the nitrates bottomed out. I did have phosphates that I used GFO to control.

Once I started dosing nitrates I raised them up to 5ppm. I did that over the first day. I let them drop down to 2.5ppm and held them there. Over the first week I noticed that there was no film forming on the glass and any algae on rocks went away.

The second week is when I noticed the burnt tips on all SPS except three. Even my euphyllia would not expand. By the end of the week I had cyano on rocks and sand. I did loose one SPS frag.

I have not dosed any nitrates and they are holding at 2.5ppm. I still have cyano on rock and sand even after dosing Chemiclean. My best guess is the cyano and SPS tip burn might have been caused from a rapid drop in PO4.

 

[Diesel]

Lighting is led/t5 and I have a reactor with zeolites and activated carbon. My alk has not changed 7.4dkh and cal is 420. I tested last night and nitrate is 2.5 PO4 is harder to read maybe .02 to .04

Here is what I think happened. I have a very low bioload in the tank (copperband, clown, and goby). Add to that a strong skimmer and the zeolites with MarinePure, carbon/bacteria dosing and the nitrates bottomed out. I did have phosphates that I used GFO to control.

Once I started dosing nitrates I raised them up to 5ppm. I did that over the first day. I let them drop down to 2.5ppm and held them there. Over the first week I noticed that there was no film forming on the glass and any algae on rocks went away.

The second week is when I noticed the burnt tips on all SPS except three. Even my euphyllia would not expand. By the end of the week I had cyano on rocks and sand. I did loose one SPS frag.

I have not dosed any nitrates and they are holding at 2.5ppm. I still have cyano on rock and sand even after dosing Chemiclean. My best guess is the cyano and SPS tip burn might have been caused from a rapid drop in PO4.

That's possible, your Po4 dropped but your ALK is low so maybe...........
Did you do ever a PAR reading?
If you don't have a PAR meter you can still do it with a free LUX meter on you smartphone.

Galactica for iphone
lux light meter by crunchy byte box for android.

40,000 lux/51=784
Lux ÷ Constant = µmol·m2·sec par

 

[jumplittlechloe]

That's possible, your Po4 dropped but your ALK is low so maybe...........
Did you do ever a PAR reading?
If you don't have a PAR meter you can still do it with a free LUX meter on you smartphone.

Galactica for iphone
lux light meter by crunchy byte box for android.

40,000 lux/51=784
Lux ÷ Constant = µmol·m2·sec par

7.4dkh is not considered low for ulns. Most ulns systems recommend alk to stay at 7 and not above 8. I have used LUX meter however it is hard to get a good reading as I keep tank blue. The led lighting is provided by 3 Kessil 360we with two let retro t5 (coral+). The tank is 48x24x24.

Just feel like the numbers aligned for cyano, burnt tips are another story. The best I can think of would be similar to adding GFO and dropping PO4 too quickly:

 

[Chris Ferrell]

Enjoying this thread, started dosing potassium nitrate today. My nitrates have been zero for about 3-4 months now and corals were starting to fade in spite of heavy feeding and using some type of amino acids. here are a few before pics. I will post my progress as well. Parameters have been steady and corals are growing fine, thanks to Randy for helping getting my dosing right on alk and calcium.
Calcium 390, slowly working it up with dkh
DKH 8.3
Po4 0.06
No3 0, and after dosing 10ml now showing about 1ppm with Red Sea test

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

7.4dkh is not considered low for ulns. Most ulns systems recommend alk to stay at 7 and not above 8. I have used LUX meter however it is hard to get a good reading as I keep tank blue. The led lighting is provided by 3 Kessil 360we with two let retro t5 (coral+). The tank is 48x24x24.

Just feel like the numbers aligned for cyano, burnt tips are another story. The best I can think of would be similar to adding GFO and dropping PO4 too quickly:

Where did you find that graph? I just don't think it is correct to suggest that when nutrients are high but "balanced" in a reef tank there is "little chance of algae", but that allowing one or the other to drop increases the chance of algae or cyanobacteria.

I don't even see a theoretical reason to think that could be true in gewneral. It implies that if you have a certain level (say, 2 ppm phosphate and 20 ppm nitrate where there is "little chance" of algae) and then reduce the nitrate, you will spur the growth of cyanobacteria. I have never seen a paper that suggests that nitrate inhibits cyanobacteria growth.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, I found that table by image search, and I just do not think it is supplying info the way folks may interpret it.

This blog discusses it in the context of freshwater planted aquaria, where the goal is to provide optimal inorganic nutrients to keep the plants thriving, and when they are thriving, this author believes there is less chance for problem algae in competition with the plants.

http://www.aquascaping-blog.com/157/redfield-ratio

But, IMO, folks should not take away the idea that keeping a special balance of nutrient levels (especially when both are elevated) will reduce the chance for problem algae in a reef aquarium unless those nutrients are being used to drive a large amount of growth of something else, and that something else is outcompeting the problem algae for some other nutrient (such as iron, CO2, etc.).

 

[jumplittlechloe]

Thanks Randy for clarifying. I went back to find the original article where I saw the graph but I cannot find it. What I do know is that I now have cyano and it is getting on my SPS and they are not happy. Any advice that might help at this point with cyano or what may have caused the flesh to recede on my SPS tips?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks Randy for clarifying. I went back to find the original article where I saw the graph but I cannot find it. What I do know is that I now have cyano and it is getting on my SPS and they are not happy. Any advice that might help at this point with cyano or what may have caused the flesh to recede on my SPS tips?

Cyano can be a beast. Usually, reducing organics and phosphate, and increasing flow are good actions.

 

[jumplittlechloe]

Used the Red Sea test kit and it is .02 - .04. Nitrate is holding at 1 - 2.5. I have two gyre 150's going on a 120. I have been sucking out what I can. May put in some gac as my euphyllia has been retracted ever sense I raised my nitrates.

 

[Chris Ferrell]

Ok, please excuse me, I am not understanding the cyano issue. Been following this thread and still confused about the cyano outbreaks, what causes that?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok, please excuse me, I am not understanding the cyano issue. Been following this thread and still confused about the cyano outbreaks, what causes that?

While all pest "algae" need a source of nitrogen and phosphorus, cyanobacteria is very different in two respects because it is not an algae but a bacterium.

It can "feed" on organic matter (unlike algae) and it can actually generate its own N from N2 from the air, which nothing else in a reef aquarium can do. On the last point, however, it is not clear that the cyano in reef tank actually does fix its own nitrogen from N2, rather than consuming ammonia or nitrate the way green algae does.

But in general, organics can be a big driver of cyanobacteria, and reducing organics (skimming, GAC, organic binding resins, etc.) can help fight a cyano problem, as can reducing phosphate.

 

[Chris Ferrell]

Thanks Randy for explaining it for me

 

[slip66]

Great thread. This looks exactly what I need.

My setup is close to jumpinglittlechloe. Zeo, vertex skimmer, 2 kessile aw360we, light bio load(2clowns and pygmy angel) in a 30 gallon setup. Carbon dosing with zeostart. Always showing 0 no3, no4 is usually 0.0-.02. I was dealing with KH issues when it spiked up to 11. Combined with ultra low no3, it wasn't very pretty. I was able to slowly let KH drop and I'm pretty steady at 7.5 now for the last month.

I have started to feed more but my no3 is still zero. I recently changed my skimmer to cycle off for 3hrs after the lights go off and feed some CV then. Still hardly any polyp extension and low color to pale color except for my Bali slimmer. Im gonna run this way for another week or so and see if there is improvement. I have some new frags as well I'm going to monitor closely. If I start seeing negative signs I will start dosing potassium nitrate.

I'm glad I read this thread and the one Russ started. Very helpful even without starting any dosing. It makes you think about your own setup and what you need to see improvement.