Pro Reef salt from Turkey

[TheReaperOfMars]

I hate to say it, but I think maybe Tropic Marin didn't realize that we place a lot of value on things that are "Made in Germany." Germany has a good reputation for engineering and quality. If I want a new Porsche I'm not interested in a Porsche Made in Turkey. Even once they get it sorted I still want my salt made in Germany. If that means I need to pay a little more to guarantee my TMP is made in Germany then so be it. If that isn't an option then maybe HW Marine Reefer is in my future.

 

[IKD]

Well, as a regular customer, at some point I’d like to reconcile these TM replies in early January with what they have found now. These assurances of strict quality control and extra testing in Turkey are shaking my confidence in believing what we are being told.

Jan 3rd
“There has been no change in the formula of Tropic Marin salt. This is true for both of our German facilities AND for our facility in Turkey. There has been no compromise in raw materials grades, mixing procedures or quality controls in ANY of our facilities, including our one in Turkey. There should be no differences in salt made from ANY of the Tropic Marin manufacturing facilities. We have done extensive and exhaustive testing of our salt products from our Turkish facility and find NO differences in comparison to the salt manufactured in our German facility”

Jan 5th
“Being a new manufacturing facility for Tropic Marin, no matter where it is located, the quality control of the products coming out of that facility is extremely tight. There is more batch testing and tighter control standards than there usually is, precisely to avoid a new facility putting out some sub standard Tropic Marin product. And that QC is ALL controlled by our Team in Germany.”

 

[FishyFishFish]

I hate to say it, but I think maybe Tropic Marin didn't realize that we place a lot of value on things that are "Made in Germany." Germany has a good reputation for engineering and quality. If I want a new Porsche I'm not interested in a Porsche Made in Turkey. Even once they get it sorted I still want my salt made in Germany. If that means I need to pay a little more to guarantee my TMP is made in Germany then so be it. If that isn't an option then maybe HW Marine Reefer is in my future.

IMO the country of origin is entirely irrelevant. How many Porsche components do you think are made in Germany? I would put money on the fact that nobody would have complained if there were no problems with the salt from Turkey.

The problem that TM has now is that, as certain batches of the salt from Turkey have been shown to be sub-standard, they will struggle to regain confidence in that source.

The bigger question as far as I can see is how this issue managed to get past German QC. The only resolution I can see, if TM wants to continue using their Turkish facility, is to re-brand it as a cheaper option. Those who have seen/experienced the issues with the salt from Turkey won’t be prepared to pay the same premium any more.

 

[IKD]

IMO the country of origin is entirely irrelevant. How many Porsche components do you think are made in Germany? I would put money on the fact that nobody would have complained if there were no problems with the salt from Turkey.

The problem that TM has now is that, as certain batches of the salt from Turkey have been shown to be sub-standard, they will struggle to regain confidence in that source.

The bigger question as far as I can see is how this issue managed to get past German QC. The only resolution I can see, if TM wants to continue using their Turkish facility, is to re-brand it as a cheaper option. Those who have seen/experienced the issues with the salt from Turkey won’t be prepared to pay the same premium any more.

It may be wishful thinking, but I hope the result comes back with falling on the sword in terms of the processes they had in place were not as perfect as they thought and they don’t blame personnel mistakes. I say that because I can believe in improved processes making a real change long term. If you only blame staff making mistakes, then you can’t overcome that because human error will always exist (new hire, disgruntled employee, having a bad day, etc) and it will be bound to happen again.

 

[TheReaperOfMars]

IMO the country of origin is entirely irrelevant. How many Porsche components do you think are made in Germany? I would put money on the fact that nobody would have complained if there were no problems with the salt from Turkey.

The problem that TM has now is that, as certain batches of the salt from Turkey have been shown to be sub-standard, they will struggle to regain confidence in that source.

The bigger question as far as I can see is how this issue managed to get past German QC. The only resolution I can see, if TM wants to continue using their Turkish facility, is to re-brand it as a cheaper option. Those who have seen/experienced the issues with the salt from Turkey won’t be prepared to pay the same premium any more.

I should clarify that I have to wonder why they expanded to Turkey. If they're doing soo well that they need to expand why not expand within Germany? The answer has to be costs. So where is the cost being cut? And if they're going to cut manufacturing costs by outsourcing will those savings be passed on to the end user? As you said, I'm not prepared to pay the same price for salt made in Turkey. Even if they sell it at a discount, I'm not really interested at this point.

 

[IKD]

I should clarify that I have to wonder why they expanded to Turkey. If they're doing soo well that they need to expand why not expand within Germany? The answer has to be costs. So where is the cost being cut? And if they're going to cut manufacturing costs by outsourcing will those savings be passed on to the end user? As you said, I'm not prepared to pay the same price for salt made in Turkey. Even if they sell it at a discount, I'm not really interested at this point.

It could also be to contain rising costs. So the question is would you pay current price for Turkey salt or x% more if they stayed only in Germany

 

[TheReaperOfMars]

It could also be to contain rising costs. So the question is would you pay current price for Turkey salt or x% more if they stayed only in Germany

I can't speak for everyone else, but I'll pay more for the made in Germany salt. Probably quite a bit more to be honest.

 

[jaxcarnage]

I just received a box of Pro Reef salt from the plant in Turkey and am weary to use it. I understand that @Lou Ekus has stated that the Turkey salt should be exactly the same as the German, however I've noticed some differences and wanting to see if anyone else has noticed or have encountered issues using the Turkish salt.

First, the salt and final mixed water has a sweet acidic citrus smell to it, where the German made salt has no smell at all. What is causing this, a different binder or chemical? When adding the salt to water it produces a milky solution before dissolving rather than a normal cloudy appearance from the German batches. These changes may just be superficial and the salt is fine, but there is definitely a difference between the Turkish and German made batches.

Does the box say it was made in Turkey?

 

[ssdawood]

It could also be to contain rising costs. So the question is would you pay current price for Turkey salt or x% more if they stayed only in Germany

They will pay extra

Bud this customer base already pays 100 to 110 a bucket whereas IO is 37 to 62 dollars a bucket.

They don't care about price. They want cleaner salt that mixes clear which TM promised.
These guys are not looking to save couple bucks.

They have 10k to 100k invested in corals. They want the best.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

They will pay extra

Bud this customer base already pays 100 to 110 a bucket whereas IO is 37 to 62 dollars a bucket.

They don't care about price. They want cleaner salt that mixes clear which TM promised.
These guys are not looking to save couple bucks.

They have 10k to 100k invested in corals. They want the best.

This is exactly how I feel and where I stand and I’m sure many other feel the same. And is the exact reason why we chose to use the cleanest supposed salt tropic Maren

 

[IKD]

They will pay extra

Bud this customer base already pays 100 to 110 a bucket whereas IO is 37 to 62 dollars a bucket.

They don't care about price. They want cleaner salt that mixes clear which TM promised.
These guys are not looking to save couple bucks.

They have 10k to 100k invested in corals. They want the best.

We can agree to disagree then TM serves more than hobbyists that are willing to shell out a little extra money for a single bucket every month or two. They supply companies with bottom lines, profit margins, and shareholders to answer to. Increasing prices loses customers or at a minimum makes customers re-evaluate the already premium price point. It's a smart move to look for efficiencies and cost-containing options for any business so I don't blame them for doing so.

 

[Billldg]

Here's the thing @Lou Ekus, I was switching to TP Pro Reef from HW Marine Reefer mix simply because I wanted to get away from BRS, NOW, I am now sure if it was a smart decision. I ordered 5 Boxes of TP Pro Reef and may have to simply throw them away as I DO NOT trust them. They ALL COME FROM TURKEY!!!

I wanted to believe in TM, AND, was willing to totally switch brands. I guess I should had stayed with HW Marine Reefer mix and find another way to detach myself from @Bulk Reef Supply

I guess I need to be another way for HW Marine to bring in their great salt and distribute it.

 

[ssdawood]

We can agree to disagree then TM serves more than hobbyists that are willing to shell out a little extra money for a single bucket every month or two. They supply companies with bottom lines, profit margins, and shareholders to answer to. Increasing prices loses customers or at a minimum makes customers re-evaluate the already premium price point. It's a smart move to look for efficiencies and cost-containing options for any business so I don't blame them for doing so.

I understand your point.

Someone worried about bottom line can buy Instant Ocean for 65 and dose.
Why would they buy TM for 100 or 110

Only because it mixes clear, leaves no residue and has nsf water parameters.

You agree with me till here?

Now let's say price of raw materials, labor cost etc rise where TM cannot produce salt that lives up to their original promise.
TM can either raise the price or cut cost to keep price same.
You arguing someone's that choose an expensive salt to begin with will be happy about same price and cutting cost in production.

Or will they happily pay extra. There is no argument.
Yes they will complain online on r2r but will still use it. Because it would still be best in market upholding its original promise.

When you say bottom line, TM is not for business, entities worried about bottom line.
We have other salt manufacturers for that.
Just trying to make forum members understand why there are few people mad. I am not trying to argue or be rude.
But you can't deny that you don't see the other side argument.
I don't use TM. Bought a bucket because of recommendation but never opened it.

 

[ssdawood]

"It's a smart move to look for efficiencies and cost-containing options for any business so I don't blame them for doing so."

I agree with you
But some consumers feel this cost cutting is related to inferior salt that didn't mix clean, left residue, had whacked alkalinity and cause damage in corals. I don't know true or false.

So far how they pulled Turkish supply from BRS looks like turkey could be culprit.

If true, this is damaging to TM. Better option was to raise prices, keep production in Germany close to mothership and charge a premium.

 

[CK00020]

From what I understand they couldn’t keep up with production in their German facility. They won’t have to worry about that for a bit, it sucks for them but they should have watched quality control better especially from a new facility.

 

[FishyFishFish]

Without being on the inside, it is hard to know why they added a production facility in Turkey; it could simply be to keep up with demand and nothing to do with cost. I would be amazed if they intentionally ‘accepted’ an impurity to make it cheaper as that is not their target audience. However, if they weren’t always looking to make efficiencies in their production (without sacrificing quality) then that wouldn’t be great business practice.

They have repeatedly said that they increased testing at this new facility to ensure that it matches the standard of their German facility. Something has clearly gone wrong with this process and they have admitted this. Now they have to work out what went wrong and how to fix it long term.

Now that they know of the impurity I would find it extremely unlikely that they will release future batches with the same issue.

 

[GlassMunky]

They will pay extra

Bud this customer base already pays 100 to 110 a bucket whereas IO is 37 to 62 dollars a bucket.

They don't care about price. They want cleaner salt that mixes clear which TM promised.
These guys are not looking to save couple bucks.

They have 10k to 100k invested in corals. They want the best.

So this is how I used to feel, but honestly, between the absolute headache it is to even get this salt anymore with the crazy increase in demand and the fact that they have these issues with production now. I’ve lost faith in them to produce said clean, high quality salt. Then add onto it the hassle involved and it’s not worth the extra money anymore.
especially since, like many other users here, when I switched back to that cheap IO salt, my tanks had an immediate improvement.
so even if I have to clean my mixing station now, that’s fine.

IMO TM moved to this new Turkey plant to help keep up with the increased demand that their original product had. and it ended up biting them in the butt as I’m sure I’m not the only person who will or has left using their products over this debacle.

that’s a BIG INVESTMENT to have this happen as a result. Hopefully for them it doesn’t hurt them overall too much, but I imagine this cost them quite a penny so far between startup and then having to shut down.

 

[NewReefer42]

Statement on current supply of Tropic Marin® Pro-Reef sea salt from our Turkish production facility.

Tropic Marin stands for the highest quality in seawater animal husbandry. Regrettably, in the last few days we have received several complaints that some of our Tropic Marin® Pro-Reef sea salt, produced in our Turkish facility, did not meet our exacting optical standards. Our investigation into these complaints has revealed that limited batches of Tropic Marin® Pro-Reef sea salt may contain a small amount of an insoluble clay mineral impurity that may impact our exacting optical quality standards, resulting in cloudiness, film and/or yellowish or brownish residue in the water. Importantly, we have no evidence that these insoluble clay minerals, causing the cloudiness, are harmful to the animals. Please note that this notice only applies to Tropic Marin® Pro-Reef sea salt blended in our facility in Turkey and that the mineral impurity has not been observed in Tropic Marin® Pro-Reef sea salt produced in our German facilities or in any of our other products.

In addition to our own investigations, we have commissioned an in-depth analysis from an external laboratory to verify our findings. As a precautionary measure, we have decided to interrupt the production and distribution of Tropic Marin® Pro-Reef salts, blended in our facility in Turkey, until further notice. Again, this is purely a precautionary measure and has no impact on Tropic Marin® Pro-Reef sea salt produced elsewhere.

We deeply regret any inconvenience this has caused.

Your Tropic Marin® team

I would like to chime in on this situation, being an analytical chemist and the quality director for a company that has supply chains all over the world (including Germany). I exclusively use TM Pro on my 220 system as I'm aiming for a high end SPS tank. Over the past year (first year of tank life, bare bottom, dry rock) I experienced much random coral death and invert death. I chalked it up to my own inexperience, bacterial fluctuations due to dry rock, and other things. After my fish died, I sent samples out for both ICP and Micro testing to find the cause, which I could not. My system is on an AWC of 2% daily, and I make about 55gal of saltwater monthly only ever using TM. After reading this thread, I checked a few of the buckets of TM I still have in the garage, one is from Germany, the other is from Turkey. I did not record which batch was used for which NSW mix, something that I will now start doing. This hobby/industry is terribly under regulated with lots of bad actors, which is why TM has for so long, in my opinion, been the gold standard of quality. I think TMs reputation has been tarnished here, and unfortunately most of the people who use the salt don't understand the complex logistics of running a global supply chain, especially over the past couple of years. That said, I would like to do 2 things with this post: 1) put a little pressure of TM by asking specific questions that they can choose to answer in detail, or not, and 2) give TM a chance to regain their gold standard with how they respond to the following questions. These are questions that I ask of my quality department and contract organizations all the time, and should be an easy answer for anyone in charge of a quality system. The challenge here is that most companies do not desire to release internal documents. This is what I will request. @Lou Ekus

1) Regarding the investigation, when was it started, by whom, and how was the issue identified? Can you share the documentation or the aggregation of records (redacted for privacy of course) that reached the threshold such that the TM quality team decided that a full and proper investigation was necessary? In layman's terms, did it just take enough people ******** on R2R for you guys to decide to look into this?
2) Once the investigation was underway, was batch/lot tracking possible and performed such that the exact lots/batches affected could be uniquely identified and tracked all the way through the supply chain and to the end user? If this was possible, was this tracking performed and documented? Would you be willing to share those records so that end users have a very high probability of identifying IF their particular bucket was affected or not? If it is not possible due to lack of proper traceability, what steps are being put in place to be able to perform this analysis in the future, should it arise?
3) Would you be willing to share any and all Corrective Actions, Risk Assessments, and Root Cause Analyses performed related to both the identification of the issue, determination of the intensity and frequency of the issue, and resolution of the issue. I completely understand that these types of assessments and documentation takes time and so may not yet be complete, but a mere willingness to show the completed documents once complete would be a good step forward in the transparency and trust area of the company and with the product. If you desire to summarize the CA, RA, and RCAs instead of posting actual internal documents that would probably be acceptable as long as they are complete.
4) Since these products have long cycle times and physically long supply chains (i.e. a product can be made many months or even years before it ends up in the customers hands), what kind of documentation scheme exists at TM to ensure that long term traceability is in place, and what kind of agreements are in place with places like BRS and other distributors so that IF you do desire to do a sales pause, recall, or other communication event, you are able to successfully do so? For example, a recall on my Ford shows up in my Ford app, and I get an email. I don't recall getting an email from BRS or TM about this potential issue. I realize, of course, that this is an incredibly sensitive topic (because sales are at stake), and that non-disclosure agreements and other legal documents MAY be in place already that could prevent the proper answer to this question, but surely there is NOT a gag order on the existence of an NDA itself. Would you and Ryan @Bulk Reef Supply be willing to sit down together and discuss this in a stream to address this issue?


Ok, those are my initial, document-less questions. I realize I'm just some random no-name guy on the internet who has only lost a few hundred dollars on SPS, but the community has lost our high quality salt flag bearer. I hope that by asking these questions for those who don't understand the complexities involved that it will at least be willing to give TM another shot. I will probably continue purchasing (and lot tracking) TM for the time being, but I am certain that others in this thread have already walked away. This is an opportunity to regain them, and the community's trust. I would be willing to volunteer some of my brain power and time to 3rd party evaluate some of the quality system metrics mentioned above if desired (even under NDA if necessary). I WANT to be able to buy perfectly pure, pharmaceutical grade materials for my reef. I do NOT want to have to question what I consider fickle questions like "is my DOS losing calibration over time" or "is my salt randomly contaminated with ion X". This hobby is hard enough, we don't need to make it harder by NOT having high quality companies and products around like TM. I hope I am heard.

 

[Cell]

I would like to chime in on this situation, being an analytical chemist and the quality director for a company that has supply chains all over the world (including Germany). I exclusively use TM Pro on my 220 system as I'm aiming for a high end SPS tank. Over the past year (first year of tank life, bare bottom, dry rock) I experienced much random coral death and invert death. I chalked it up to my own inexperience, bacterial fluctuations due to dry rock, and other things. After my fish died, I sent samples out for both ICP and Micro testing to find the cause, which I could not. My system is on an AWC of 2% daily, and I make about 55gal of saltwater monthly only ever using TM. After reading this thread, I checked a few of the buckets of TM I still have in the garage, one is from Germany, the other is from Turkey. I did not record which batch was used for which NSW mix, something that I will now start doing. This hobby/industry is terribly under regulated with lots of bad actors, which is why TM has for so long, in my opinion, been the gold standard of quality. I think TMs reputation has been tarnished here, and unfortunately most of the people who use the salt don't understand the complex logistics of running a global supply chain, especially over the past couple of years. That said, I would like to do 2 things with this post: 1) put a little pressure of TM by asking specific questions that they can choose to answer in detail, or not, and 2) give TM a chance to regain their gold standard with how they respond to the following questions. These are questions that I ask of my quality department and contract organizations all the time, and should be an easy answer for anyone in charge of a quality system. The challenge here is that most companies do not desire to release internal documents. This is what I will request. @Lou Ekus

1) Regarding the investigation, when was it started, by whom, and how was the issue identified? Can you share the documentation or the aggregation of records (redacted for privacy of course) that reached the threshold such that the TM quality team decided that a full and proper investigation was necessary? In layman's terms, did it just take enough people ******** on R2R for you guys to decide to look into this?
2) Once the investigation was underway, was batch/lot tracking possible and performed such that the exact lots/batches affected could be uniquely identified and tracked all the way through the supply chain and to the end user? If this was possible, was this tracking performed and documented? Would you be willing to share those records so that end users have a very high probability of identifying IF their particular bucket was affected or not? If it is not possible due to lack of proper traceability, what steps are being put in place to be able to perform this analysis in the future, should it arise?
3) Would you be willing to share any and all Corrective Actions, Risk Assessments, and Root Cause Analyses performed related to both the identification of the issue, determination of the intensity and frequency of the issue, and resolution of the issue. I completely understand that these types of assessments and documentation takes time and so may not yet be complete, but a mere willingness to show the completed documents once complete would be a good step forward in the transparency and trust area of the company and with the product. If you desire to summarize the CA, RA, and RCAs instead of posting actual internal documents that would probably be acceptable as long as they are complete.
4) Since these products have long cycle times and physically long supply chains (i.e. a product can be made many months or even years before it ends up in the customers hands), what kind of documentation scheme exists at TM to ensure that long term traceability is in place, and what kind of agreements are in place with places like BRS and other distributors so that IF you do desire to do a sales pause, recall, or other communication event, you are able to successfully do so? For example, a recall on my Ford shows up in my Ford app, and I get an email. I don't recall getting an email from BRS or TM about this potential issue. I realize, of course, that this is an incredibly sensitive topic (because sales are at stake), and that non-disclosure agreements and other legal documents MAY be in place already that could prevent the proper answer to this question, but surely there is NOT a gag order on the existence of an NDA itself. Would you and Ryan @Bulk Reef Supply be willing to sit down together and discuss this in a stream to address this issue?


Ok, those are my initial, document-less questions. I realize I'm just some random no-name guy on the internet who has only lost a few hundred dollars on SPS, but the community has lost our high quality salt flag bearer. I hope that by asking these questions for those who don't understand the complexities involved that it will at least be willing to give TM another shot. I will probably continue purchasing (and lot tracking) TM for the time being, but I am certain that others in this thread have already walked away. This is an opportunity to regain them, and the community's trust. I would be willing to volunteer some of my brain power and time to 3rd party evaluate some of the quality system metrics mentioned above if desired (even under NDA if necessary). I WANT to be able to buy perfectly pure, pharmaceutical grade materials for my reef. I do NOT want to have to question what I consider fickle questions like "is my DOS losing calibration over time" or "is my salt randomly contaminated with ion X". This hobby is hard enough, we don't need to make it harder by NOT having high quality companies and products around like TM. I hope I am heard.

You just gave ME anxiety. I am going to schedule myself an MRB and hash some things out.

 

[Woodyman]

I would like to chime in on this situation, being an analytical chemist and the quality director for a company that has supply chains all over the world (including Germany). I exclusively use TM Pro on my 220 system as I'm aiming for a high end SPS tank. Over the past year (first year of tank life, bare bottom, dry rock) I experienced much random coral death and invert death. I chalked it up to my own inexperience, bacterial fluctuations due to dry rock, and other things. After my fish died, I sent samples out for both ICP and Micro testing to find the cause, which I could not. My system is on an AWC of 2% daily, and I make about 55gal of saltwater monthly only ever using TM. After reading this thread, I checked a few of the buckets of TM I still have in the garage, one is from Germany, the other is from Turkey. I did not record which batch was used for which NSW mix, something that I will now start doing. This hobby/industry is terribly under regulated with lots of bad actors, which is why TM has for so long, in my opinion, been the gold standard of quality. I think TMs reputation has been tarnished here, and unfortunately most of the people who use the salt don't understand the complex logistics of running a global supply chain, especially over the past couple of years. That said, I would like to do 2 things with this post: 1) put a little pressure of TM by asking specific questions that they can choose to answer in detail, or not, and 2) give TM a chance to regain their gold standard with how they respond to the following questions. These are questions that I ask of my quality department and contract organizations all the time, and should be an easy answer for anyone in charge of a quality system. The challenge here is that most companies do not desire to release internal documents. This is what I will request. @Lou Ekus

1) Regarding the investigation, when was it started, by whom, and how was the issue identified? Can you share the documentation or the aggregation of records (redacted for privacy of course) that reached the threshold such that the TM quality team decided that a full and proper investigation was necessary? In layman's terms, did it just take enough people ******** on R2R for you guys to decide to look into this?
2) Once the investigation was underway, was batch/lot tracking possible and performed such that the exact lots/batches affected could be uniquely identified and tracked all the way through the supply chain and to the end user? If this was possible, was this tracking performed and documented? Would you be willing to share those records so that end users have a very high probability of identifying IF their particular bucket was affected or not? If it is not possible due to lack of proper traceability, what steps are being put in place to be able to perform this analysis in the future, should it arise?
3) Would you be willing to share any and all Corrective Actions, Risk Assessments, and Root Cause Analyses performed related to both the identification of the issue, determination of the intensity and frequency of the issue, and resolution of the issue. I completely understand that these types of assessments and documentation takes time and so may not yet be complete, but a mere willingness to show the completed documents once complete would be a good step forward in the transparency and trust area of the company and with the product. If you desire to summarize the CA, RA, and RCAs instead of posting actual internal documents that would probably be acceptable as long as they are complete.
4) Since these products have long cycle times and physically long supply chains (i.e. a product can be made many months or even years before it ends up in the customers hands), what kind of documentation scheme exists at TM to ensure that long term traceability is in place, and what kind of agreements are in place with places like BRS and other distributors so that IF you do desire to do a sales pause, recall, or other communication event, you are able to successfully do so? For example, a recall on my Ford shows up in my Ford app, and I get an email. I don't recall getting an email from BRS or TM about this potential issue. I realize, of course, that this is an incredibly sensitive topic (because sales are at stake), and that non-disclosure agreements and other legal documents MAY be in place already that could prevent the proper answer to this question, but surely there is NOT a gag order on the existence of an NDA itself. Would you and Ryan @Bulk Reef Supply be willing to sit down together and discuss this in a stream to address this issue?


Ok, those are my initial, document-less questions. I realize I'm just some random no-name guy on the internet who has only lost a few hundred dollars on SPS, but the community has lost our high quality salt flag bearer. I hope that by asking these questions for those who don't understand the complexities involved that it will at least be willing to give TM another shot. I will probably continue purchasing (and lot tracking) TM for the time being, but I am certain that others in this thread have already walked away. This is an opportunity to regain them, and the community's trust. I would be willing to volunteer some of my brain power and time to 3rd party evaluate some of the quality system metrics mentioned above if desired (even under NDA if necessary). I WANT to be able to buy perfectly pure, pharmaceutical grade materials for my reef. I do NOT want to have to question what I consider fickle questions like "is my DOS losing calibration over time" or "is my salt randomly contaminated with ion X". This hobby is hard enough, we don't need to make it harder by NOT having high quality companies and products around like TM. I hope I am heard.

As another member in quality management I would second all this.

I'm almost out of my German made TMP. I'll be opening up (and checking) the bucket I have Turkey within the next few weeks.