Proper dosing of Coppersafe

PeterG

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Almost impossible for me to get a Rx for CP where I live. Can't say that I'd use the eBay stuff.
Something to ponder: the primary thing we do in this hobby is water quality. Everything else is secondary to the water. So great RODI + good quality salt + good quality tools (pumps, heaters, testing equipment) = healthy fish.
You make a strong argument for investing in quality test kits.
I wouldn't buy CP from eBAy either. If my vet writes me an Rx I'll get it from Diamondback Pharmacy as recommended by HumbleFish.
Just looked at the photos posted by Daniel James (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/proper-dosing-of-coppersafe.309726/page-11) (post #209) and I see what you mean about holding the test vial above the chart. Plan to do tests and post results later today.
 
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DanielJameS

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FWIW - there is yet another (seemingly new) seller on eBay selling CP as well in a plastic bottle.

f10032edd16f153c83643b558a255c5f.jpg


I am in the midst of a long Fallow period so I decided to give it a try. I can confirm that it does not work at ANY doseage, even insanely over dosed.

I have had success with “the well known” eBay sellers CP ONCE but the last time I ordered, not so much. Supposedly sourced from Fishman.

9578f2d2b12304f7d4fb0683d92a7e26.jpg


The only eBay CP I have not tried is the Marex Aquatronics stuff which “used to be” legit. I had an Interesting convo with that seller about how they “revived” aquatronics and now sell independently on eBay, but the responses I got sure seemed to be written by someone with poor English, and just got the impression it was phony. My guess is they got their hands on this stuff when they went out of business, and is actually super old and expired because to my knowledge there is no exp. date on the packaging. Shame, because I’m fairly certain this Marex CP used to be the real deal.

631979011bf399fb1181836b9db589f9.jpg


The best experience I had with CP was when a fellow reefer donated some Rx grade powder to me the last time I went Fallow, it worked just as described. No Ill effects with the eBay stuff, but failure to success ratio for me was about 80/20

Currently running copper power.
 

PeterG

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@Big G -
Here are two new photos taken with the vials held as you suggested - approx ½” above the color test strip. The QT tank has a total of 30ml/25 gal. for a ratio of 1.2ml/gal. The recommended dosage on my bottle of Coppersafe says 5ml/4gal for a ration of 1.25ml/gal. So I'm slightly under the mfg rec dosage. Below are the images, #1 on the left is a test with 1.25ml into 1 gal of water #2 on the right is one taken from my QT tank with the above mentioned dosage.

I took both photos in the same location, same lighting, same camera & lens settings. White balance has been adjusted to match the ZERO circle on the color strip. What adds to the difficulty in judging, for me at least, is that the liquids are translucent while the color dots are opaque. To my eye they look pretty similar, perhaps both a shade under the 2ppm.
Now the question: Does #2, from my QT, look to be of sufficient concentration to fall into the therapeutic range?

#1 - one gal test with 1.25ml coppersafe #2 - From my 25 gal QT tank with a total of 3oml Coppersafe
20180324PBG_2744.jpg
20180324PBG_2742.jpg
 
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PeterG

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Do you have an Rx from your vet?
Not yet, going to see her next Fri with our new puppy. I printed out both articles HumbleFish posted to bolster my case. We've got several dogs and cats that are patients at the clinic and unless there is some statute in FL prohibiting writing an Rx for an animal you haven't seen I would expect they will honor my request.
 

DanielJameS

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Not yet, going to see her next Fri with our new puppy. I printed out both articles HumbleFish posted to bolster my case. We've got several dogs and cats that are patients at the clinic and unless there is some statute in FL prohibiting writing an Rx for an animal you haven't seen I would expect they will honor my request.

Hope it works for you I tried three different vets here in TN with no success.
 

Big G

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@Big G -
Here are two new photos taken with the vials held as you suggested - approx ½” above the color test strip. The QT tank has a total of 30ml/25 gal. for a ratio of 1.2ml/gal. The recommended dosage on my bottle of Coppersafe says 5ml/4gal for a ration of 1.25ml/gal. So I'm slightly under the mfg rec dosage. Below are the images, #1 on the left is a test with 1.25ml into 1 gal of water #2 on the right is one taken from my QT tank with the above mentioned dosage.

I took both photos in the same location, same lighting, same camera & lens settings. White balance has been adjusted to match the ZERO circle on the color strip. What adds to the difficulty in judging, for me at least, is that the liquids are translucent while the color dots are opaque. To my eye they look pretty similar, perhaps both a shade under the 2ppm.
Now the question: Does #2, from my QT, look to be of sufficient concentration to fall into the therapeutic range?

#1 - one gal test with 1.25ml coppersafe #2 - From my 25 gal QT tank with a total of 3oml Coppersafe
20180324PBG_2744.jpg
20180324PBG_2742.jpg
Since copper safe's therapeutic range is 1.5-2.0 I'd say you look just fine. Just had my wife, the color expert, look at your pics and she agrees it looks just like the 2.0 sample I tested this morning for my QT.
 

PeterG

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Since copper safe's therapeutic range is 1.5-2.0 I'd say you look just fine. Just had my wife, the color expert, look at your pics and she agrees it looks just like the 2.0 sample I tested this morning for my QT.
Thanks Big G for all your advice and thank your wife for me. Now I can start my countdown. I'll have to check my notes but I think it is 28 days from the date I reached therapeutic level.

@Brew12 @Humblefish, @HotRocks and everyone else who provided insight on this: My experience with Coppersafe is detailed above. The bottom line is that my bottle of Coppersafe purchased a few weeks ago worked as advertised. I dosed 30ml into 25 gal for a concentration of 1.2ml/gal just slightly under their 1.25ml/gal (5ml/4gal).
 

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Just read through the updates on this thread and wanted to add my experience. I dosed per the original recommndations on this thread for a total of 36 ml for my 20 gal tank and have been testing with api test kit. I had been thinking the color looked to be higher then the 2ppm on the chart but dismissed it thinking it was just a crappy color chart or me not reading it correctly. But now I'm wondering if my tank really does have way too much copper.. I'm 6 days away from finishing my 30 day treatment and the 2 clowns and royal gramma are still doing just fine but I've ordered a Hanna checker and will see what it reads.

My bottle of coppersafe was purchased in January.

I'm attaching a photo from my test today

9bdb4f032fce5cff3979719878eabca4.jpg
 
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HotRocks

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Just read through the updates on this thread and wanted to add my experience. I dosed per the original recommndations on this thread for a total of 36 ml for my 20 gal tank and have been testing with api test kit. I had been thinking the color looked to be higher then the 2ppm on the chart but dismissed it thinking it was just a crappy color chart or me not reading it correctly. But now I'm wondering if my tank really does have way too much copper.. I'm 6 days away from finishing my 30 day treatment and the 2 clowns and royal gramma are still doing just fine but I've ordered a Hanna checker and will see what it reads.

My bottle of coppersafe was purchased in January.

I'm attaching a photo from my test today

9bdb4f032fce5cff3979719878eabca4.jpg

That looks to be at or above 4.0 in the pic to me.
 
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Big G

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Just read through the updates on this thread and wanted to add my experience. I dosed per the original recommndations on this thread for a total of 36 ml for my 20 gal tank and have been testing with api test kit. I had been thinking the color looked to be higher then the 2ppm on the chart but dismissed it thinking it was just a crappy color chart or me not reading it correctly. But now I'm wondering if my tank really does have way too much copper.. I'm 6 days away from finishing my 30 day treatment and the 2 clowns and royal gramma are still doing just fine but I've ordered a Hanna checker and will see what it reads.

My bottle of coppersafe was purchased in January.

I'm attaching a photo from my test today

9bdb4f032fce5cff3979719878eabca4.jpg
With my bottle of Coppersafe, at 35 ml it turned out when I checked it with my new Hanna it was 2.80 ppm on my 20 gal QT.
 

PeterG

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Just read through the updates on this thread and wanted to add my experience. I dosed per the original recommndations on this thread for a total of 36 ml for my 20 gal tank and have been testing with api test kit. I had been thinking the color looked to be higher then the 2ppm on the chart but dismissed it thinking it was just a crappy color chart or me not reading it correctly. But now I'm wondering if my tank really does have way too much copper.. I'm 6 days away from finishing my 30 day treatment and the 2 clowns and royal gramma are still doing just fine but I've ordered a Hanna checker and will see what it reads. QUOTE]

My bottle of coppersafe was purchased in January.

I'm attaching a photo from my test today


I agree with hot rocks. Looks like 4.0 or greater. 36ml in 20 gal seems high based on my bottle's recommended dosage of "5ml/4gal". This ratio would give you a total of 25ml in a 20 gal tank (4 gal divided by 20 gal = 5 doses x 5ml per dose = 25ml.
What does your bottle say?
FWIW - I dosed a total of 30ml into 25 gal water and my tests still look good. Glad to hear your fish are all OK but going forward other species might be more sensitive to the copper.
Here's a link to Melypr1985's treatment guideline chart for different fish: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450
 

HotRocks

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Yeah, so the issue here is previously, we had to dose the product at a higher rate, in order to reach the theraputic level. Now somewhere down the line it has changed. If I dose as recommended with my bottle I acheive 3.0ppm.
 

Bthomas

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Do you think i could really be at 4 or greater for almost a month and the fish not be showung any negative signs?

So based on this i likely have a higher concentration bottle and for next use i should try dosing based on the bottles instructions?

I'm very interested to see what the Hanna checker will read my tank at
 
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rob G

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I just way under dosed Fritz Coppersafe to start ramping it up in QT. I have a 33 long with nothing but some pvc fittings, bare bottom and a power head pointed at the surface. I added three teaspoons and let it circulate for a bit and then tested with the API kit. I cant tell, it could be over 4 depending on how I hold the test tube. So I checked it with my low range Seachem kit and it says I am at about .9 to 1.0 already. Is that possible? I have the water line down just a touch so figure a total volume of 30 gallons maybe....I ordered the Hanna checker and found out they are out of stock for a few weeks. Asked if I found out about it on Reef2Reef, thought that was neat to hear. Anyway, I guess I will wait two days and ramp it up with three more teaspoons and see where that gets me.
 

Humblefish

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@rob G Honestly, I wouldn't use Coppersafe anymore unless you have a Hanna checker on hand to test it. Their bottles have become just too inconsistent.

Hopefully next week @Hanna Instruments will confirm that their high range copper checker works in SW. But whether it gets confirmed or not, I will be making a major revision to the copper sticky after their announcement. One thing is already for sure no matter what... Coppersafe is getting dumped on it's head in favor of Copper Power. Fritz has failed me for the last time.

bnuyTzN.png
 

HotRocks

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I just way under dosed Fritz Coppersafe to start ramping it up in QT. I have a 33 long with nothing but some pvc fittings, bare bottom and a power head pointed at the surface. I added three teaspoons and let it circulate for a bit and then tested with the API kit. I cant tell, it could be over 4 depending on how I hold the test tube. So I checked it with my low range Seachem kit and it says I am at about .9 to 1.0 already. Is that possible? I have the water line down just a touch so figure a total volume of 30 gallons maybe....I ordered the Hanna checker and found out they are out of stock for a few weeks. Asked if I found out about it on Reef2Reef, thought that was neat to hear. Anyway, I guess I will wait two days and ramp it up with three more teaspoons and see where that gets me.


I totally agree with @Humblefish ^^^.
I also would say your bottle is consistent with mine at the 3.0ppm concentration or close to it anyway.
15ml dosed into 33gallon = 1.08ppm. By the math, with a starting concentration of 3.0ppm dosed at manf instructions.

Are you reading your API with the cap off? Looking down into the vial at the actual water?
For what its worth, They say hold the test vial 1/4"-1/2" above the card, outside in indirect sunlight for the most accurate reading...
If your seachem kit is reading near 1.0ppm then the API kit should be similar, not looking like a 4.0 anyway.
 
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rob G

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I totally agree with @Humblefish ^^^.
I also would say your bottle is consistent with mine at the 3.0ppm concentration or close to it anyway.
15ml dosed into 33gallon = 1.08ppm. By the math, with a starting concentration of 3.0ppm dosed at manf instructions.

Are you reading your API with the cap off? Looking down into the vial at the actual water?
For what its worth, They say hold the test vial 1/4"-1/2" above the card, outside in direct sunlight for the most accurate reading...
If your seachem kit is reading near 1.0ppm then the API kit should be similar, not looking like a 4.0 anyway.
This is what I was looking for actually. It would change considerably depending on the light source if it was above me or just ambient light and also distance from the card vs resting on the card. Thank you for clearing that up. I think I can manage to get it to the right level and keep it there for this treatment course and go to Copper Power in the future.
 

rob G

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@rob G Honestly, I wouldn't use Coppersafe anymore unless you have a Hanna checker on hand to test it. Their bottles have become just too inconsistent.

Hopefully next week @Hanna Instruments will confirm that their high range copper checker works in SW. But whether it gets confirmed or not, I will be making a major revision to the copper sticky after their announcement. One thing is already for sure no matter what... Coppersafe is getting dumped on it's head in favor of Copper Power. Fritz has failed me for the last time.

bnuyTzN.png
Thank you, I am excited about the checker for hopefully my next batch of fish. I will test and retest my way through this course of treatment and go to Copper Power for future QT sessions. Thanks!
 
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