Proper dosing of Coppersafe

Orphek OR3 reef aquarium LED lighting

dwwataz

nuttier than a squirrel turd
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Messages
1,045
Reaction score
1,418
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Annapolis, MD
Well.. After ttm/hypo my fish started going downhill fast. Humble said it's likely velvet so I started dosing coppersafe per the other thread's 1.6ml per gallon recommendation. After finding this thread and freaking myself out I too bought a checker. It'll hopefully be here soon and I'll be able to contribute to this (hopefully) tremendous leap forward for the hobby

I did 5ml at noon and 5ml at 6 because I was trying to ramp this up over 48 hours. Unfortunately, I don't have the 5-7 day window right now. Lots of flashing/twitching. I'm also working with a 29g with ~25-27g water. I guess I should cut down to 2ml per 6 hours and test? Problem is I cannot tell the difference between 2 and 4ppm. I'm nowhere near there yet, it was .25-.5 when I freaked out and checked an hour ago. I can't remember when I bought this bottle. Seems like it's been at least a few weeks and possibly a couple months. Zero idea
 

PeterG

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Messages
285
Reaction score
155
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
St. Pete Beach, FL
I added my 11th 2ml dose to a 25 gal tank last nite. My reading with an API test kit is > 1ppm but not at 2ppm. I’ll ballpark the number at 1.5ppm. I was surprised to see there that the color card jumped from 1ppm to 2ppm with no color sample for 1.5ppm. As we can see from Daniel James’ photos these API test kit readings are really open to interpretation. I think I had more confidence using the Seachem kit when I dosing with Cupramine. What kit are you folks using?

I’m now at 22ml in 25gal of water with four 2ml doses to reach 30ml. Will continue to monitor.

Sadly, I found one of my Clowns dead this AM. He was eating yesterday but I had noticed a decrease in his activity level over the past few days compared to the other clown fish. Could it be the Coppersafe?
I can’t see anything obvious but I posted a couple of photos. Maybe one of you with a more experienced eye will notice something.
20180321PBG_2729.jpg
20180321PBG_2730.jpg
 

DanielJameS

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Dec 2, 2016
Messages
317
Reaction score
163
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Nashville
I’m now at 22ml in 25gal of water with four 2ml doses to reach 30ml. Will continue to monitor.

You’re in a similar situation to me. You need to get those Cu levels to therapeutic ASAP but it’s not going to do anything for the infected fish as far as what’s already on them or in their gills. Have you done any dips or bath procedures?

Also did you make yourself a Control vial for the recommended dose so you have a color to go on other than just the card?
 

DanielJameS

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Dec 2, 2016
Messages
317
Reaction score
163
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Nashville
Also FWIW, I ended up having to dose about .5ml more per gallon than the mfg recommendation with copper power (very similar) and am now therapeutic. However I still have 2 fish that are of immediate concern, a Swallowtail who was obviously reinfected during a failed medicated period (visible velvet) and a Kole Tang that looks to be right behind her behaviorally.

I’m getting ready to set up for another FW dip and rally bath. Velvet is a giant PITA.
 
Tidal Gardens January 29th YouTube Live Show

PeterG

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Messages
285
Reaction score
155
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
St. Pete Beach, FL

Hi Daniel, Our situation is a bit different. I am not treating infected fish. These guys are new purchases that I am quarantining proactively using parameters outlined by Big G (See quote below)
I have not dome a control vial but after rereading your initial post I'm going to do that.
Sounds about right. I'd dose 2ml AM & 2ml PM and start testing end of day 3. Therapeutic levels of Coppersafe are 1.5ppm - 2.0ppm. So you have to decide where you want to be in that range. Be careful with the wrasse. Slow dosing is important with them. And I certainly wouldn't want to be over 2.0ppm

The other R2R member was using a new bottle of Coppersafe and a new API Test Kit. He should have gotten to the following 2.0 ppm at 54.25 ml. of Coppersafe, but he hit that level at 30 ml. tested with API Copper Test Kit. Yikes!
 

PeterG

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Messages
285
Reaction score
155
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
St. Pete Beach, FL
Also FWIW, I ended up having to dose about .5ml more per gallon than the mfg recommendation with copper power (very similar) and am now therapeutic. However I still have 2 fish that are of immediate concern, a Swallowtail who was obviously reinfected during a failed medicated period (visible velvet) and a Kole Tang that looks to be right behind her behaviorally.

I’m getting ready to set up for another FW dip and rally bath. Velvet is a giant PITA.

We are also using different products. I think you're using Copper Power; I'm using Copper Safe so the mfg rec dosage is probably different as well.
Good luck with your velvet issues. I just went thru a similar problem (not sure Velvet or Ich) but managed to save about half my fish in emergency QT using Cupramine. Just completed the 76 day fallow period for my DT and reintroduced survivors.
Don't ever want to go thru that again so I am now QTing all new arrivals. Will do the same with corals.
 

DanielJameS

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Dec 2, 2016
Messages
317
Reaction score
163
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Nashville
Ah my bad I was confusing you with the poster above you! Good luck, I’ve actually used coppersafe before and had good results but this go around I didn’t have time to wait for it to arrive and my LFS has copper power which is similar and I’ve heard good things about it.

One things for certain. For future QT I’m over the API copper test, too much guessing on such a fine line medication.
 

HotRocks

Fish Fanatic!
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
8,641
Reaction score
27,878
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Westfield, Indiana
I added my 11th 2ml dose to a 25 gal tank last nite. My reading with an API test kit is > 1ppm but not at 2ppm. I’ll ballpark the number at 1.5ppm. I was surprised to see there that the color card jumped from 1ppm to 2ppm with no color sample for 1.5ppm. As we can see from Daniel James’ photos these API test kit readings are really open to interpretation. I think I had more confidence using the Seachem kit when I dosing with Cupramine. What kit are you folks using?

I’m now at 22ml in 25gal of water with four 2ml doses to reach 30ml. Will continue to monitor.

Sadly, I found one of my Clowns dead this AM. He was eating yesterday but I had noticed a decrease in his activity level over the past few days compared to the other clown fish. Could it be the Coppersafe?
I can’t see anything obvious but I posted a couple of photos. Maybe one of you with a more experienced eye will notice something.
20180321PBG_2729.jpg
20180321PBG_2730.jpg

I am beginning to wonder if there is also something else going on with the product coppersafe. You might find this thread interesting as something I have stumbled upon. Sorry for your loss. Your situation is another one that makes me suspect of the product, clowns are generally not known to be sensitive to copper.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...instruments-high-range-copper-checker.368943/
 

HotRocks

Fish Fanatic!
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
8,641
Reaction score
27,878
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Westfield, Indiana
Ah my bad I was confusing you with the poster above you! Good luck, I’ve actually used coppersafe before and had good results but this go around I didn’t have time to wait for it to arrive and my LFS has copper power which is similar and I’ve heard good things about it.

One things for certain. For future QT I’m over the API copper test, too much guessing on such a fine line medication.

Check this out, we may be on our way to solving test issues.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...instruments-high-range-copper-checker.368943/
 
Fritz

PeterG

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Messages
285
Reaction score
155
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
St. Pete Beach, FL
I am beginning to wonder if there is also something else going on with the product coppersafe. You might find this thread interesting as something I have stumbled upon. Sorry for your loss. Your situation is another one that makes me suspect of the product, clowns are generally not known to be sensitive to copper.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...instruments-high-range-copper-checker.368943/
HR, Thanks for the link. Lots to absorb there so I'll get into it later on. What I'm finding so far with my recently purchased Coppersafe is that the rec dosage of 5ml/4gal seems to be right on. When Big G came up with a dosing plan for me (see my post above #227) We were shooting for a final concentration of 1.8 - 20ppm with a total dose of 30ml into 25 gal water. The Mfg rec is 5ml/4gal which comes out to a total dose of 31.25ml into 25 gal. My earlier test after 16ml came out to approx 1ppm. So roughly half goal of 2ppm with just over half the doses administered.
Jeez this is a cumbersome process. I'm regretting not just sticking with Cupramine like I used before. While no panacea, I was much more confident using the Seachem test kit.
Next week I take my new puppy to the vet and I'm going to ask her for an Rx for the CP (Chloroquine phosphate) that Humblefish discusses here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/
Regardless of what copper method I decide on Ive definitely got to get something better than the API test.
 

jbeanz24

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
109
Reaction score
15
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Upper Darby , PA
Api test kit is so hard to read my QT is a ten gallon tank. I dosed 12.5ML and based on an API test kit it looks like im in the theraputic range hard to tell exactly where i am its at or just under 2.0ppm based on the color im seeing. Ill try and get a pic up this evening afterwork. I have 4 barttlett anthias in there so far so good.
 

PeterG

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Messages
285
Reaction score
155
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
St. Pete Beach, FL
I completed my dosing last night - total of 30ml/25 gal. for a ratio of 1.2ml/gal. The recommended dosage on my bottle of Coppersafe says 5ml/4gal for a ration of 1.25ml/gal. So I'm slightly under the mfg rec dosage. Below are two images, #1 on the left is a test with 1.25ml into 1 gal of water
#2 on the right is one taken from my QT tank with the above mentioned dosage. I took both photos in the same location with kitchen LEDs turned up full. The discrepancy in coloration is due to difference in outside light coming thru a skylight. Rather than correct with white balance I'm posting SOOC (straight out of camera). Only change was to f/stop on lens to get greater depth of field. To my eye #2 has a deeper color even though #1 is a slightly higher concentration of Coppersafe.
Now the question: Does #2, from my QT, look to be of sufficient concentration to fall into the therapeutic range?
#1 - one gal test with 1.25ml coppersafe #2 - From my 25 gal QT tank with a total of 3oml coppersafe
20180322PBG_2734.jpg
20180323PBG_2739.jpg

Am I ok to start the clock on getting these guys into the DT? What do you do you folks think?
 

PeterG

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Messages
285
Reaction score
155
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
St. Pete Beach, FL
Reminder. Hold the test tube a bit above the card otherwise the color is too dark.
Hadn't thought of that. I guess so light gets underneath the tube. Will make it difficult to photograph though as my macro lens is a manual focus. Might have to enlist the wife.
So these photos are not sufficient to offer up an opinion on the level of copper?
 
Aquarium Specialty - dry goods & marine livestock

Big G

captain dunsel
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
12,750
Reaction score
27,053
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Southern Oregon
Hadn't thought of that. I guess so light gets underneath the tube. Will make it difficult to photograph though as my macro lens is a manual focus. Might have to enlist the wife.
So these photos are not sufficient to offer up an opinion on the level of copper?
Yep. Need to have a 1/4"-1/2" gap for light under the bottom of the test-tube. Trust the better half ;) The ladies are way better at color than men.
 

PeterG

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Messages
285
Reaction score
155
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
St. Pete Beach, FL
Yep. Need to have a 1/4"-1/2" gap for light under the bottom of the test-tube. Trust the better half ;) The ladies are way better at color than men.

Well it will have to be tonight. I still have the sample gallon of water as well. The copper level in that should still be the same right?
On another topic, what copper test are you using? I've been reading HotRocks posts about the Hanna Checker and also saw some stuff on the Chemetrics test. Gotta be something better than API.
I was much more confident in the Seachem test when I was using Cupramine.
 

Big G

captain dunsel
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
12,750
Reaction score
27,053
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Southern Oregon
I use the API for Coppersafe; I use Seachem for Cupramine. Because I test frequently and do multiple small doses daily, I've not had an overdosing problem with Coppersafe. Though I have notice a pattern of prematurely reaching therapeutic levels myself and with others on the forum.
That being said, I have a Hanna Checker coming in a couple of days. I use some of their other Checkers and have had very good results. Once my container of Coppersafe is used up, I'm done with them and have purchased Copper Power for a chelated copper.
Have you seen Meredith's chart on what copper to use for different types of fish?
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/#post-3449648
 

PeterG

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Messages
285
Reaction score
155
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
St. Pete Beach, FL
I use the API for Coppersafe; I use Seachem for Cupramine. Because I test frequently and do multiple small doses daily, I've not had an overdosing problem with Coppersafe. Though I have notice a pattern of prematurely reaching therapeutic levels myself and with others on the forum.
That being said, I have a Hanna Checker coming in a couple of days. I use some of their other Checkers and have had very good results. Once my container of Coppersafe is used up, I'm done with them and have purchased Copper Power for a chelated copper.
Have you seen Meredith's chart on what copper to use for different types of fish?
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/#post-3449648

I did see that chart and have it bookmarked. Thanks for reminding me why I chose to go with Coppersafe over Cupramine for this QT - Six Line Wrasse among the fish in QT. I'll have to look into Copper Power.
I'm seeing my vet next week with a new puppy and plan to ask her for an Rx for CP. Have you tried that yet?
Interested in hearing more about the Hanna checkers. I'm still a newbie and with all the stuff on my wish list I guess pricey test kits lack in sex appeal.
 

Big G

captain dunsel
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
12,750
Reaction score
27,053
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Southern Oregon
Almost impossible for me to get a Rx for CP where I live. Can't say that I'd use the eBay stuff.
Something to ponder: the primary thing we do in this hobby is water quality. Everything else is secondary to the water. So great RODI + good quality salt + good quality tools (pumps, heaters, testing equipment) = healthy fish.
 
Click to watch best scape method in 5 easy steps!

Have you ever torn down a tank over an issue you couldn't seem to beat?

  • Yes! I have. (Tell us about what issue you faced in the thread.)

    Votes: 176 24.2%
  • No. Thankfully, I haven't.

    Votes: 376 51.7%
  • Nope, but it almost happened. (Share your experience in the thread.)

    Votes: 53 7.3%
  • Not yet, but I'm almost there. (Tell us what you're dealing with.)

    Votes: 61 8.4%
  • If you reef long enough, this will eventually happen to you.

    Votes: 47 6.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 14 1.9%
LRS
Top