Pump recemendationsfor remote ATO

[Daniel D Dawson]

Hello all! I have a 310 Planet Aquariums I am in the process of setting up. I am trying to avoid an ato in the stand. I do already have the neptune ATK and solenoid. but no pump. I would like to use my 40 gallon ro holding tank as my top off to avoid TDS creep from connecting directly to my rodi filters. I have seen some poor reviews here with the PMUP as well as the BRS 50 ml peristaltic pump. I considered just getting a used DOS since I would essentially have a back up pump ready since I would only need 1 of the DOS units. I already have an EB8 at my mixing station as well. Any thoughts on this? The DOS sounds like it may be the easiest/ reliable setup but not necessarily its intended use.

 

[Daniel D Dawson]

Just as a side note, the mixing station is in my garage with an eb8 and approximately 12 ft of head height and 15 ft horizontal. 3 Ro lines have already been ran from the mixing station to the diaplay with anticipation of running a awc and ro ato.

 

[UncommonSense]

Just as a side note, the mixing station is in my garage with an eb8 and approximately 12 ft of head height and 15 ft horizontal. 3 Ro lines have already been ran from the mixing station to the diaplay with anticipation of running a awc and ro ato.

Hmm… high lift pumps such as positive displacement pumps might be a clean answer here… maybe a booster pump off a tiny priming pump?

 

[Daniel D Dawson]

Hmm… high lift pumps such as positive displacement pumps might be a clean answer here… maybe a booster pump off a tiny priming pump?

Thanks for the reply! I have looked into using an ro booster pump. This looks like a possible viable option. I am looking for reliability as well as simplicity. Are you currently using an ato remote from your display?

 

[UncommonSense]

Thanks for the reply! I have looked into using an ro booster pump. This looks like a possible viable option. I am looking for reliability as well as simplicity. Are you currently using an ato remote from your display?

I’m in the process of setting up ATO for several systems now; but not in a remote, high lift scenario!

I do know the Tunze osmolator (old and new models both will work) metering pumps are good for your required head height too… though I haven’t done a ton of research on low flow, high lift pumps as of lately!

 

[_chiefxr33f]

Thanks for the reply! I have looked into using an ro booster pump. This looks like a possible viable option. I am looking for reliability as well as simplicity. Are you currently using an ato remote from your display?

To do this and be safe and successful, you'll want to buy super high quality john quest 1/4 tubing and locks on all of the fittings. They make a leak stop solenoid kit that consists of a normally open solenoid that energizes when it detects unwanted "traffic" through the flowmeter. if you don't use the locks the line will sag due to the nature of the flo-jet style booster pump in normal operation eventually causing a leak. This is how I am going to do it when I do mine. I've done several successful installations with this.

 

[petcellar]

Also, your idea with the dos is great. That is what I use. Its reliable and does well over long distances.

I realize a dos is a bit of an overkill just as an ato but I have been very happy with it.

 

[Daniel D Dawson]

Also, your idea with the dos is great. That is what I use. Its reliable and does well over long distances.

I realize a dos is a bit of an overkill just as an ato but I have been very happy with it.

Thanks for the reply. This seems to be overkill but likely the easiest most failsafe way to go. I was actually reading a post you had in regards to a remote ato earlier. How has this been working for you so far? What does programming look like? Is it just a simple, if low then off then on type statement?

 

[petcellar]

Thanks for the reply. This seems to be overkill but likely the easiest most failsafe way to go. I was actually reading a post you had in regards to a remote ato earlier. How has this been working for you so far? What does programming look like? Is it just a simple, if low then off then on type statement?

This is how I did it originally.... and it worked very well.

I used the wizard to set the ato to put in a certain number of gallons over a 24 hour period. For me.... I needed about 3 gallons a day for evaporation, so I set it for a few gallons bigger. It could even be less that that obviously.

So this gave me the tdata under the advanced tab. I left it alone and added the rest of the programming underneath.

I used two optical sensors, and put them at the same level in my sump. I don't have a high and low sensor. I just have two sensors at the same level for a failsafe in case one goes bad.

Not sure what sensors came with your ATO kit but I'm sure you could do something similar.

My coding then looks like this:

Fallback OFF
tdata 00:00:00,1,19,6,2,2,148,130,6,62,2,28,11,0
If ATO_1 CLOSED Then OFF
If ATO_2 CLOSED Then OFF
When On > 360:00 Then OFF
Defer 001:00 Then OFF
Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

Basically doses 5 gallons of RODI a day.... but stops when either optical sensor is wet.
If it runs more then 6 hours without stopping it should turn off.

I had to play with the When statement a bit to find a time that works well.
Five gallons over 24 hours is a pretty slow rate. At first I had it set to 30 minutes, but it would run for that long and cut off early.

This worked without a hitch and I was really pleased with it. Pumped through my attic from my laundry room to my living room without a problem.... something that neither the Red Sea ATO or the Tunze 3 could do.





Since I use my DOS for AWC as well, I ended up changing my programing to how @subodhs does it.

He has a general example in the thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/why-do-people-buy-expensive-ato.1090871/

This has been the best ever.... combines ATO and AWC and salinity always perfect.

The Achilles heel to this setup though is that everything depends on the Apex salinity probe.... which I concede could be a disaster waiting to happen. But it has gone smoothly for me for months.

 

[Daniel D Dawson]

Just an update for anyone who comes across this thread. I ended up using a Kamoer KCPA600 peristaltic pump and using the ATK. So far so good. I have had no issues with this set up so far and would do it again if need be.

 

[Sequest]

Going to bump this one for myself.

I have a long distance ATO and use a Kamoer ATO One 2 RO which is just optical water sensors that engage a solenoid if the water drops below the sensor.
I then use 1/4" rigid tubing out to the ATO (roughly 15 meters), into a high pressure switch which then goes into an RO pump, which pumps out of a 1000L IBC.
Been using this setup for a year now. It works, but i have one problem/concern. The high pressure switch keeps rapidly switching on/off when the solenoid is engaged (so flow is open, thus pressure in pipe should go down).
I don't know why. My suspicion is the head pressure is so great its either right on the tripping pressure of the high pressure switch (due to the 15m of tubing plus right angels and the fact it needs to go up one story), or as I have found the ro pump causes a surging in the water as it pumps (due to how it works? Every rotation of the pump you can visibly see the pipe shaking) which combined with head pressure causes the rapid firing of the switch.

Now as i said. It works... But this can't be good for the pump or HPS. The HPS is not adjustable so i cant increase the pressure (30-40 PSI) at which it turns off.

So i am looking into other options.
I originally used an ecotech versa pump and used a Reef Factory level keeper which just turns on an AC outlet to turn on the versa, but the volume of water it could put out, even flat out, was too little and it caused a heck of a noise for a long run time to top up the tank. Add to that that the tubing inside those dosing heads wears out super fast, it was terriblyy noisy and an expensive solution.

Im running at around 15m of tubing, with multiple right angles.
I don't think there is any other options open to me if I want to keep it automated.
Has anyone else had long run ATO's and what solutions did you use?

My last option, that i dont really want to do (not sure i can due to space), is move the IBC's closer to the tank.

 

[UncommonSense]

Going to bump this one for myself.

I have a long distance ATO and use a Kamoer ATO One 2 RO which is just optical water sensors that engage a solenoid if the water drops below the sensor.
I then use 1/4" rigid tubing out to the ATO (roughly 15 meters), into a high pressure switch which then goes into an RO pump, which pumps out of a 1000L IBC.
Been using this setup for a year now. It works, but i have one problem/concern. The high pressure switch keeps rapidly switching on/off when the solenoid is engaged (so flow is open, thus pressure in pipe should go down).
I don't know why. My suspicion is the head pressure is so great its either right on the tripping pressure of the high pressure switch (due to the 15m of tubing plus right angels and the fact it needs to go up one story), or as I have found the ro pump causes a surging in the water as it pumps (due to how it works? Every rotation of the pump you can visibly see the pipe shaking) which combined with head pressure causes the rapid firing of the switch.

Now as i said. It works... But this can't be good for the pump or HPS. The HPS is not adjustable so i cant increase the pressure (30-40 PSI) at which it turns off.

So i am looking into other options.
I originally used an ecotech versa pump and used a Reef Factory level keeper which just turns on an AC outlet to turn on the versa, but the volume of water it could put out, even flat out, was too little and it caused a heck of a noise for a long run time to top up the tank. Add to that that the tubing inside those dosing heads wears out super fast, it was terriblyy noisy and an expensive solution.

Im running at around 15m of tubing, with multiple right angles.
I don't think there is any other options open to me if I want to keep it automated.
Has anyone else had long run ATO's and what solutions did you use?

My last option, that i dont really want to do (not sure i can due to space), is move the IBC's closer to the tank.

Have you considered using an accumulator tank on the outlet of the pressure pump? This would compensate for surges, and prevent rapid switching; they are effectively a pressure reservoir, or “battery”!

 

[KStatefan]

Going to bump this one for myself.

I have a long distance ATO and use a Kamoer ATO One 2 RO which is just optical water sensors that engage a solenoid if the water drops below the sensor.
I then use 1/4" rigid tubing out to the ATO (roughly 15 meters), into a high pressure switch which then goes into an RO pump, which pumps out of a 1000L IBC.
Been using this setup for a year now. It works, but i have one problem/concern. The high pressure switch keeps rapidly switching on/off when the solenoid is engaged (so flow is open, thus pressure in pipe should go down).
I don't know why. My suspicion is the head pressure is so great its either right on the tripping pressure of the high pressure switch (due to the 15m of tubing plus right angels and the fact it needs to go up one story), or as I have found the ro pump causes a surging in the water as it pumps (due to how it works? Every rotation of the pump you can visibly see the pipe shaking) which combined with head pressure causes the rapid firing of the switch.

Now as i said. It works... But this can't be good for the pump or HPS. The HPS is not adjustable so i cant increase the pressure (30-40 PSI) at which it turns off.

So i am looking into other options.
I originally used an ecotech versa pump and used a Reef Factory level keeper which just turns on an AC outlet to turn on the versa, but the volume of water it could put out, even flat out, was too little and it caused a heck of a noise for a long run time to top up the tank. Add to that that the tubing inside those dosing heads wears out super fast, it was terriblyy noisy and an expensive solution.

Im running at around 15m of tubing, with multiple right angles.
I don't think there is any other options open to me if I want to keep it automated.
Has anyone else had long run ATO's and what solutions did you use?

My last option, that i dont really want to do (not sure i can due to space), is move the IBC's closer to the tank.

I use a spectrapure litermeter to pump water from my RODI container to the ATO reservoir at the tank.

 

[Sequest]

Have you considered using an accumulator tank on the outlet of the pressure pump? This would compensate for surges, and prevent rapid switching; they are effectively a pressure reservoir, or “battery”!

I did not know these existed!
Thanks.

I assume they sit after the HPS?

 

[UncommonSense]

I did not know these existed!
Thanks.

I assume they sit after the HPS?

Yup! After the HPS, I teed mine off the main RO product water line!

— these are also great to add to RO drinking water systems; giving you a reserve of product water on-demand when you open your drinking water tap!

I personally HATE the “stainless” steel ~3.4g accumulator tanks that are all over the market… they are all made it one or two factories with hundreds of different brand labels slapped on…

Friends of mine have had three of them fail (pressure bladder seal blown out), each in eight months or less … upon cutting the tanks open with an angle grinder, we were met with thick rust, creeping more than surface deep… brown rust water, etc… these tanks are junk!

I’ve had great luck with plastic accumulator tanks of ~2.5g capacity by Watts, I’m around 6-7 years in on two for my personal system currently, in fact!

The only better option (longevity) would be a glass lined steel accumulator tank… I haven’t looked in years, but back then, the smallest one I could find was 20g, and was $400!

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

Hello all! I have a 310 Planet Aquariums I am in the process of setting up. I am trying to avoid an ato in the stand. I do already have the neptune ATK and solenoid. but no pump. I would like to use my 40 gallon ro holding tank as my top off to avoid TDS creep from connecting directly to my rodi filters. I have seen some poor reviews here with the PMUP as well as the BRS 50 ml peristaltic pump. I considered just getting a used DOS since I would essentially have a back up pump ready since I would only need 1 of the DOS units. I already have an EB8 at my mixing station as well. Any thoughts on this? The DOS sounds like it may be the easiest/ reliable setup but not necessarily its intended use.

I'm thinking of getting this tank as well. Do you know the exact location of the internal overflow holes? I'm probably going with an aluminum stand and want to make sure of the clearance below.

 

[2000se]

I use a stenner 85MP3 for my remote ato. Almost same setup. ATO reservoir in the garage. Stenner plugged into eb8. Programmed the apex to cycle the stenner as needed.

 

[Daniel D Dawson]

Hello all! I have a 310 Planet Aquariums I am in the process of setting up. I am trying to avoid an ato in the stand. I do already have the neptune ATK and solenoid. but no pump. I would like to use my 40 gallon ro holding tank as my top off to avoid TDS creep from connecting directly to my rodi filters. I have seen some poor reviews here with the PMUP as well as the BRS 50 ml peristaltic pump. I considered just getting a used DOS since I would essentially have a back up pump ready since I would only need 1 of the DOS units. I already have an EB8 at my mixing station as well. Any thoughts on this? The DOS sounds like it may be the easiest/ reliable setup but not necessarily its intended use.

I'm thinking of getting this tank as well. Do you know the exact location of the internal overflow holes? I'm probably going with an aluminum stand and want to make sure of the clearance below.

I will see if I can find some time to measure tonight and report back tomorrow. It might be difficult to getvyou an exact measurement but can probably get you in the ballpark. If you are building a custom steel stand for this I'd reach out to planet aquariums and confirm first just to verify the overflow is the same layout still. My overflow box might be 16" wide and dead center of the tank.

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

I will see if I can find some time to measure tonight and report back tomorrow. It might be difficult to getvyou an exact measurement but can probably get you in the ballpark. If you are building a custom steel stand for this I'd reach out to planet aquariums and confirm first just to verify the overflow is the same layout still. My overflow box might be 16" wide and dead center of the tank.

Thank you, I'm requesting the same type of overflow. The one measurement I'm most concerned with is the distance from the edge of the tank to the closest edge of the drilled holes. A picture of the underside would be cool as well

 

[Daniel D Dawson]

I will see if I can find some time to measure tonight and report back tomorrow. It might be difficult to getvyou an exact measurement but can probably get you in the ballpark. If you are building a custom steel stand for this I'd reach out to planet aquariums and confirm first just to verify the overflow is the same layout still. My overflow box might be 16" wide and dead center of the tank.

Thank you, I'm requesting the same type of overflow. The one measurement I'm most concerned with is the distance from the edge of the tank to the closest edge of the drilled holes. A picture of the underside would be cool as well