Q for everyone are you FOR or AGAINST QT

[N.Sreefer]

Quarantine protocols for fishes

Quarantine protocols for fishes

www.academia.edu

conclusion is on page 51

They didn't answer any of the questions I listed its a very biased thesis paper that says in the summary that most zoos/aquaria didn't respond. Not sure what useful information you obtained from that? How only a handful of public aquaria in germany used to qt in 2006?

Edit: Just realized this sounded harsh and is not intended to its a serious question.

 

[Aqua Man]

My biggest question when it comes to QT is how medications like copper effect cellulase enzyme and the symbiotic bacteria responsible for producing it, could it be preventing herbivorous fish from breaking down plant matter? Causing them to slowly waste away? Are the mucosa strong enough to break down food effectively by themselves without the aid of bacteria? Questions like that that we can't answer yet is why I believe its worth debating to QT or not.

This is why I’m undecided. I do see a benefit of an observation tank though.

Is there anyone who does the copper qt and has fish over 10 years old?

 

[N.Sreefer]

This is why I’m undecided. I do see a benefit of an observation tank though.

Is there anyone who does the copper qt and has fish over 10 years old?

It does seem like anyone with an old tank and old fish does not qt. Only fish I ever lost that wasn't lost in qt, when I tried it, was a wild mummichog I caught and had some sort of creature burst out of its stomach. Funny thing is no other fish were ever effected. This was in my display. I would chalk that up to immunity.

 

[flashsmith]

I don't QT but my stance is.. Whatever helps you sleep at night. I don't really care either way. Your money your tank. I have a good supplier and don't order any fish online. I have minimal losses it works for me. Sometimes over thinking causes more problems.

 

[atoll]

They were wrong then what makes you think they don't continue to be wrong.
35 years or so ago we were told the following by the "experts" of the day.
You can only have one of any species of fish or they would fight to the death. Wrong.
You should never feed fresh marine foods from the ocean or you tank will get wiped out by diseases. Wrong.
You must copper treat your tank to keep disease at bay. Wrong.
You had to feed gramma irradiated foods. Wrong.
Protein skimmers were nothing but a gimmick. Wrong.
You could not grow any marine algae in a tank only GHA. Wrong.
You must have prefiltets like wool. Wrong.
You must QT or you will get disease. Wrong.

Am sure I have missed lots more.

These are as wrong today as they were back then. Everybody bowed to the reef gods.

 

[chema]

I had always performed observational QTs (no medication) . Last year I introduced a C. multicolor in my display tank. This fish had been for two weeks under observation, with no signs of disease. A few days after the introduction in the display tank it developed itch. A few days after, most of my fishes also developed itch. Eventually four of them died, including a 17 cm long xanthometopon which was the king of the tank. I was afraid that itch would wipe out all of my fishes. Fortunately, the rest of them survived to the disease.

Since then I have begun to treat with copper all the quarantined fishes. I wouldn' t like to go through the same disaster again.

 

[flashsmith]

Usually by the time the fish makes it your house. It's stressed and underweight. Medicating it without any real knowledge of what it may be doing to an already stressed fish could make things worse. Treating a fish that may or may not need it is crazy imo. Would you take medication for something you may or may not have? There's just as many threads starting with "fish died while in quarantine' as fish died while not in quarantine. I'm neutral in this but there are just as many cons for doing it as not doing it. If you start the fish out with good groceries and selcon or any other similar supplement I've found it helps more than anything I've ever tried personally. Again I've had success with this method. What you do is up to you.

 

[brandon429]

Convenient: non quarantine advocates don’t have to field challenges live time, in anyone’s forum. They spent the last ten years not securing a single forum, anywhere on the web, where we get to watch them run live time tank challenges where I get to see independent proofs myself, not a summary of someone’s tank at home


Self reports are 110% the complete stance for skipping fish preps, and nobody embellishes stuff on the web. If you guys simply buy new fish and don’t tell anyone, and only post old pics of your fish…


non quarantiners, no prep advocates, Paul, we are simply never / not in any decade / going to be able to watch you produce what Jay produces and HF produces live time, you get to be free of all scrutiny permanently as a group claims for best practices, is that a fair assessment of efforts? To be clear, you won’t work to secure even a small space on someone else’s forum to field actual demand jobs, you won’t set up a php board yourself nor anyone from the team- you’ll simply show up in quarantine forums and try and dissuade people— am I not watching this unfold today/ live time

 

[brandon429]

Imagine taking the effort to field disease preps and challenges in others tanks where you don’t control the whole narrative and summary.



where when challenged, you respond with a link of work you did live time for others, and we have to scroll two years in your post history to find you posting about your own reef since your proof system is solely built on live time work threads.

That could be scary accountable, I agree stay away from that risk. let Jay carry the sole proofing load for third parties. Continue to sound as if you’re totally tested and vetted in claims.


I think you guys just buy more fish with a click to replace dead ones, then you give us the enron outcome report.

 

[brandon429]

The debates continue today exactly as they have this week, the only tangible change the no preps team can provide is securing forum space somewhere, anywhere, to take on live challenge jobs and you’ll also need to be a cycling forum active works thread since tank prep at the start matters. You’d respond with links from such a forum using pertinent live time outcomes, and in the first year you’ll develop some outstanding patterns any reader can discern without summary help.


Jay does exactly this, for years, a double standard for claims and proofs is well underway, someone break the cycle.

 

[HuduVudu]

???

The post I quoted was mentioning using peroxide for treating disease.

 

[HuduVudu]

Hudu, my tank is loaded with encrusting sponges and I assume whatever it exudes while it is being cut is kind of toxic. I had to change almost 100% of my water. Now all is well. I won't use chemicals or carbon so I did the only thing I could do.

Yah, I have dino's and I think that when I scraped the algae they did they thing. Next time I will not put the algae scrapings back in. I just let the bacterial bloom run it's course, took several days to clear.

Good info on the sponges. I will be careful if I am doing pruning like that.

 

[HuduVudu]

To rough to collect all that parasite laden water.

If you keep it up you will have no more ideas left because I will have stolen them all.

 

[HuduVudu]

Imagine taking the effort to field disease preps and challenges in others tanks where you don’t control the whole narrative and summary.

Imagine that there are people on the other side of the words ... real live people that have lifetimes behind them. Imagine not know what they have done in those lifetimes.
Imagine guessing about the things in those lives and be totally utterly and completely wrong.

I have worked in salt water aqauarium stores for many many many years of my life. Imagine this all happened before the internet.

where when challenged, you respond with a link of work you did live time for others, and we have to scroll two years in your post history to find you posting about your own reef since your proof system is solely built on live time work threads.

You are aware that social media is a realtively new thing. Also scientific papers used to be something called published.

Your ignorance is breathtaking.

That could be scary accountable, I agree stay away from that risk. let Jay carry the sole proofing load for third parties. Continue to sound as if you’re totally tested and vetted in claims.

You know what is even more scary? Having an angry customer confront you to your face IRL, and having to answer to them. I guess you have never had to experience that, but I guess that is my point.

I think you guys just buy more fish with a click to replace dead ones, then you give us the enron outcome report.

This what people that are failing ALWAYS think. The think this because they are not willing to give themselves to a simple program.

Sadly for people like that no amount of proof will ever get them change their erroneous thinking.

 

[brandon429]

Excuses. I never thought for one split second you’d make such an effort, few will. So long as we agree this method opposite from this disease forum makes no effort to validate anything while touting itself as the best method to the exclusion and replacement of all others, then we are set. Adherents back it up continually, though they’re too busy to simply make one tiny niche on any forum the last 20 years. ok.

 

[HuduVudu]

I had always performed observational QTs (no medication) . Last year I introduced a C. multicolor in my display tank. This fish had been for two weeks under observation, with no signs of disease. A few days after the introduction in the display tank it developed itch. A few days after, most of my fishes also developed itch. Eventually four of them died, including a 17 cm long xanthometopon which was the king of the tank. I was afraid that itch would wipe out all of my fishes. Fortunately, the rest of them survived to the disease.

Since then I have begun to treat with copper all the quarantined fishes. I wouldn' t like to go through the same disaster again.

I don't think that what you experienced is ich. I think that was marine velvet. Similar looking but velvet is far more lethal. People having experienced velvet very often start QT protocols.

Velvet is ugly for sure.

 

[brandon429]

I found it pretty telling when there wasn't even a simple request asked of Rev from your team, I had to make one. effort it takes to simply request an all natural forum for its salesmen and practitioners? easier than typing that long paragraph above.

the key is, you guys don't want to be tested live time, you can't. even making the slight effort to just request a forum here or somewhere would show you had real resolve the method was transferrable to all kinds of setups. its scarily not that way. once you give others the power to report/accountability bigtime.

who holds the reporting power now? click on post history where curious to see. solely reports about the author's tank, no pattern to link or show, that's the exposed secret of the no prep method. Its reserved for such a select few who honestly can wield no preps that way, but there's no way you're corralling a reefing public into waiting/attaining these same setups plus the inherent timing and skill to earn those outcomes in lots of 20.

a live time works forum will force you to adapt your recommendations because tons of third party evals will drive the change.

 

[HuduVudu]

Excuses. I never thought for one split second you’d make such an effort, few will. So long as we agree this method opposite from this disease forum makes no effort to validate anything while touting itself as the best method to the exclusion and replacement of all others, then we are set. Adherents back it up continually, though they’re too busy to simply make one tiny niche on any forum the last 20 years. ok.

It is really hard for people that are caught in Mya to believe anything other than what their delusion tells them.

I am tired of fighting with people like you. Especially people like you. Without any knowledge or anything to offer. You have no knowledge of your own and of what knowledge you do have it is broken and incomplete even on the QT side.

Why don't you post a pic of your tank? You are so smart it shouldn't be hard.

 

[brandon429]

Requesting new subforum to research disease control patterns: all natural management options

Team in order to advance the science of disease control in marine fish tanks we need to allow the all natural groups a chance to manage disease like Jay does in the disease forum using qt and fallow. We need multiple options available so that practices can be clearly logged using these highly...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[HuduVudu]

I found it pretty telling when there wasn't even a simple request asked of Rev from your team, I had to make one.

First off I am not on a team. That is your construct.

Second off I saw your request, if your understanding of tech and social dynamic is as good as your aquarium skillz no one ever should ever listen to what you have to say.