QT: Stuck On what To Do??

[tpirovol]

Hey everyone,

About 45 days ago, I introduced three chromis, a blue tang, a purple firefish, and a pajama cardinal into my tank QT Tank.. While all the fish initially appeared healthy, the blue tang was showing signs of scratching. I treated the tank with Copper Power for 20 days and completed two rounds of API General Cure. Unfortunately, the blue tang and the chromis stopped eating, and after 16 days, I removed the copper in hopes they would regain their appetite. Sadly, both the chromis and the blue tang didn’t make it. There was no sign of Uronema the fish that died just stopped eating.

Two weeks ago, I introduced another blue tang along with the purple firefish and pajama cardinal. So far, all are eating well, showing no signs of scratching or illness.

??? What should I do
1) Just monitor for another 2-3 weeks and then put them in
2) Copper them for 30 days?
3) Other?

Thanks T
@Jay Hemdal

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey everyone,

About 45 days ago, I introduced three chromis, a blue tang, a purple firefish, and a pajama cardinal into my tank QT Tank.. While all the fish initially appeared healthy, the blue tang was showing signs of scratching. I treated the tank with Copper Power for 20 days and completed two rounds of API General Cure. Unfortunately, the blue tang and the chromis stopped eating, and after 16 days, I removed the copper in hopes they would regain their appetite. Sadly, both the chromis and the blue tang didn’t make it. There was no sign of Uronema the fish that died just stopped eating.

Two weeks ago, I introduced another blue tang along with the purple firefish and pajama cardinal. So far, all are eating well, showing no signs of scratching or illness.

??? What should I do
1) Just monitor for another 2-3 weeks and then put them in
2) Copper them for 30 days?
3) Other?

Thanks T
@Jay Hemdal

First issue is copper (assuming coppersafe). You want to run it a full 30 days at 2.15-2.25. Skip general cure and instead after 30 days follow with praziPro at 85% of recommended dosage in which the behavior mentioned may be flukes and prazi is often the fix. The fish stopping with feeding also a sign of flukes.
Other signs would have been elevated breathing, loss of color and lethargic behavior.
Moving forward, reset the quarantine with sterile water and restart the coppersafe but for 21 days and then PraziPro as mentioned applying initial dose and allow to run for 8 days, change water and one more application lasting 8 days

 

[tpirovol]

First issue is copper (assuming coppersafe). You want to run it a full 30 days at 2.15-2.25. Skip general cure and instead after 30 days follow with praziPro at 85% of recommended dosage in which the behavior mentioned may be flukes and prazi is often the fix. The fish stopping with feeding also a sign of flukes.
Other signs would have been elevated breathing, loss of color and lethargic behavior.
Moving forward, reset the quarantine with sterile water and restart the coppersafe but for 21 days and then PraziPro as mentioned applying initial dose and allow to run for 8 days, change water and one more application lasting 8 days

IF I was to do a watch approach how long?? I dont want to loose them all since they all look good and no issues seen at all.

 

[Fish Fan]

IF I was to do a watch approach how long?? I dont want to loose them all since they all look good and no issues seen at all.

I would listen to Vetteguy's reply, he's one of the R2R Fish Medic crew, I am not.

If by "watch approach" you mean just observe the fish and don't treat them with any medication, I believe that would be ill-advised at this point. I think you have to assume that some kind of disease infected your original fish that died, and for that reason you'd have to assume that all the original fish in your QT are also infected. That means that your new fish have now been exposed to the disease, even *if* they were *clean* coming in, and so best practice would be to treat all fish in a medicated QT.

Going back to your original post, that does seem like a lot of fish. What size QT tank are you using, and have you been monitoring ammonia? Did all three Chromis die?

Best of luck going forward!

 

[Reefer1978]

How mature was the QT tank? Have you ever figured out the cause of death?

 

[Tamberav]

2-3 weeks observation isn’t long enough for no meds. I have had observation only and had stuff show up week 4-5 and stuff never show up till many more weeks later.

Instead of just observing, I would do 14 days therapeutic of copper then transfer to a brand new QT and don’t re-use anything. The idea here is to transfer away from the cysts but treat long enough to kill swimmers.

It’s not perfect method but better than just observing, I would then watch them for 4 weeks in the new tank med free. I would also do GC or prazipro in the new tank to treat for flukes.

Otherwise I would just do the 30 days copper. I doubt your original fish died from the copper, they probably had other internal issues going on or collection issues.

As someone who has done lots of observation QT before, I never had velvet make it into the DT but ich, flukes, internal parasites absolutely can as they can take longer to actually show.

You didn’t mention what copper you used, what concentration or how you tested. If the tank was cycled, if ammonia levels were checked, etc. Hard to know the cause.

 

[Reefer1978]

2-3 weeks observation isn’t long enough for no meds. I have had observation only and had stuff show up week 4-5 and stuff never show up till many more weeks later.

Instead of just observing, I would do 14 days therapeutic of copper then transfer to a brand new QT and don’t re-use anything. The idea here is to transfer away from the cysts but treat long enough to kill swimmers.

It’s not perfect method but better than just observing, I would then watch them for 4 weeks in the new tank med free. I would also do GC or prazipro in the new tank to treat for flukes.

Otherwise I would just do the 30 days copper. I doubt your original fish died from the copper, they probably had other internal issues going on or collection issues.

As someone who has done lots of observation QT before, I never had velvet make it into the DT but ich, flukes, internal parasites absolutely can as they can take longer to actually show.

You didn’t mention what copper you used, what concentration or how you tested. If the tank was cycled, if ammonia levels were checked, etc. Hard to know the cause.

Copper Power was mentioned, but you are connect about the concentration.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Copper Power was mentioned, but you are connect about the concentration.

Yes - both copper power and coppersafe need to be run for 30 days at 2.25 ppm, measured with an accurate test, like the Hanna HR copper checker.

 

[tpirovol]

Yes - both copper power and coppersafe need to be run for 30 days at 2.25 ppm, measured with an accurate test, like the Hanna HR copper checker.

What about any concern with Uronema? If its internal what should In also dose? I have a copper tester ? I was under the assumption it needed to be 2.5?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

What about any concern with Uronema? If its internal what should In also dose? I have a copper tester ? I was under the assumption it needed to be 2.5?

Despite what you’ll read, inter cellular Uronema is not treatable with bath medications. It may not even be treatable with oral medications, nobody really knows; a fish with obvious Uronema lesions won’t be eating, so oral meds can’t be used. If you use the oral meds before there are any lesions, you can’t tell if it worked because you don’t know if the fish had Uronema or not. Oral meds include metronidazole at 2ppm by weight in food.
Luckily, internal Uronema is not very contagious, if at all.

 

[tpirovol]

Despite what you’ll read, inter cellular Uronema is not treatable with bath medications. It may not even be treatable with oral medications, nobody really knows; a fish with obvious Uronema lesions won’t be eating, so oral meds can’t be used. If you use the oral meds before there are any lesions, you can’t tell if it worked because you don’t know if the fish had Uronema or not. Oral meds include metronidazole at 2ppm by weight in food.
Luckily, internal Uronema is not very contagious, if at all.

TY so to confirm if I do 30x days of copper and then 30x days of watching and they dont die then we are good and if they had internal uronema then reality is it will take down my DT as it would not be contagious.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

TY so to confirm if I do 30x days of copper and then 30x days of watching and they dont die then we are good and if they had internal uronema then reality is it will take down my DT as it would not be contagious.

You should add a prazi treatment after the copper. Uronema is a falcultative parasite, not an obligate one. Normally, they are found in most aquariums where they feed on bacteria. Internal Uronema typically shows up in fish within 40 days of being shippped.