Quarantine and ammonia

[hectoriptera]

Hello you all.

I’m just still a bit newbie on the hobby and doing my research on quarantine procedures. I’m just curious about the fact that the current quarantine suggested in this forum says the QT should be cycled, but I don’t understand what’s the reason for that if we are going to use copper and kill those bacteria. So, in the end does it make sense or does it even make any difference in between doing the quarantine in a not cycled tank and a cycled one ?
I have a 120 L AOI tank that I’m thinking about using as QT and it’s cycled. I’m sad for turning it to QT but I want to get a 500 L one to use as a Fish only, and I don’t have space for both .

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello you all.

I’m just still a bit newbie on the hobby and doing my research on quarantine procedures. I’m just curious about the fact that the current quarantine suggested in this forum says the QT should be cycled, but I don’t understand what’s the reason for that if we are going to use copper and kill those bacteria. So, in the end does it make sense or does it even make any difference in between doing the quarantine in a not cycled tank and a cycled one ?
I have a 120 L AOI tank that I’m thinking about using as QT and it’s cycled. I’m sad for turning it to QT but I want to get a 500 L one to use as a Fish only, and I don’t have space for both .

Adding a seeded sponge from an aged tank or sponge with fritzyme 9000 will help with ammonia but also monitor ammonia with a reliable test kit

 

[hectoriptera]

Adding a seeded sponge from an aged tank or sponge with fritzyme 9000 will help with ammonia but also monitor ammonia with a reliable test kit

Thanks for answering this fast. So copper or other medicaments won’t kill those bacteria ?

 

[Fish Fan]

Thanks for answering this fast. So copper or other medicaments won’t kill those bacteria ?

No, not significantly enough that it will impact the biofiltration capacity of the tank. The bacteria mostly do fine even with the copper, assuming you're using a product like Copper Safe or Copper Power. I personally think it's best practice to have a functioning biofilter on a QT tank to minimize any additional and unnecessary stress from elevated ammonia.

Good luck!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hello you all.

I’m just still a bit newbie on the hobby and doing my research on quarantine procedures. I’m just curious about the fact that the current quarantine suggested in this forum says the QT should be cycled, but I don’t understand what’s the reason for that if we are going to use copper and kill those bacteria. So, in the end does it make sense or does it even make any difference in between doing the quarantine in a not cycled tank and a cycled one ?
I have a 120 L AOI tank that I’m thinking about using as QT and it’s cycled. I’m sad for turning it to QT but I want to get a 500 L one to use as a Fish only, and I don’t have space for both .

Coppersafe and copper power have a very small adverse affect on the beneficial nitrifying bacteria….less than 25%, usually much less than that.

That said, you need to be aware that amine/chelated copper products will show a false positive of around 0.50 ppm on most ammonia tests. That means you don’t worry about ammonia readings unless they get higher than that.

 

[hectoriptera]

No, not significantly enough that it will impact the biofiltration capacity of the tank. The bacteria mostly do fine even with the copper, assuming you're using a product like Copper Safe or Copper Power. I personally think it's best practice to have a functioning biofilter on a QT tank to minimize any additional and unnecessary stress from elevated ammonia.

Good luck!

No, not significantly enough that it will impact the biofiltration capacity of the tank. The bacteria mostly do fine even with the copper, assuming you're using a product like Copper Safe or Copper Power. I personally think it's best practice to have a functioning biofilter on a QT tank to minimize any additional and unnecessary stress from elevated ammonia.

Good luck!

Oh I see. Those are great news. That tank is basically equipped with biofilm from aqua forest, activated carbon and filter floss (no sponge). I should probably remove the carbon, sand, life rock and so, but do you think should I leave there the aqua forest biofilm ? I thought It should be removed since it could absorb copper. But from your answer maybe I’m wrong and it could be a good option to leave there. Also, do you think if I place plastic bioballs and a sponge the current bacteria will colonize those fast ?

 

[hectoriptera]

Coppersafe and copper power have a very small adverse affect on the beneficial nitrifying bacteria….less than 25%, usually much less than that.

That said, you need to be aware that amine/chelated copper products will show a false positive of around 0.50 ppm on most ammonia tests. That means you don’t worry about ammonia readings unless they get higher than that.

That’s amazing ! This completely disturbs (in the good way) the idea of the QT and DT display I had. Because I thought the bacteria would be killed if I used medicaments in the tank. Considering that’s not correct and the fact that my intention is to have a tank with fish only. Could I just use the medication directly on the DT ? I wouldn’t be keeping inverts.

 

[Fish Fan]

I guess I'm not sure what an AF "biofilm" is, but if that some type of biological media or a sponge, I would leave that in the system, it should be loaded with beneficial bacteria.

 

[hectoriptera]

I guess I'm not sure what an AF "biofilm" is, but if that some type of biological media or a sponge, I would leave that in the system, it should be loaded with beneficial bacteria.

Yeah sorry, It’s actually Bio fil, my bad. It seems like something that may absorb copper just like sand or life rock. That’s my concern

 

[winxp_man]

“Oh I see. Those are great news. That tank is basically equipped with biofilm from aqua forest, activated carbon and filter floss (no sponge). I should probably remove the carbon, sand, life rock and so, but do you think should I leave there the aqua forest biofilm ? I thought It should be removed since it could absorb copper. But from your answer maybe I’m wrong and it could be a good option to leave there. Also, do you think if I place plastic bioballs and a sponge the current bacteria will colonize those fast?”

Just a heads up, your reply posted integrated with the other members reply.

But to answer this post. Do not use carbon with copper in the same QT tank. Makes copper redundant. Carbon will absorb copper.

 

[winxp_man]

Yeah sorry, It’s actually Bio fil, my bad. It seems like something that may absorb copper just like sand or life rock. That’s my concern

A tip, in regard to media outside of biofilter sponge.

I would look at Genesis rock by Polyplab. It’s what I run my QT tanks on. Have one that’s been running for almost a year.

Edit: copper is super stable with these media rocks! Does not absorb any at all. Have tested it in a two week period with a ato on the QT system and held copper like a champ.

 

[Jasonak]

I read somewhere that ammonia badges will not be affected by copper in the water, so thats what I use.

https://www.seachem.com/ammonia-alert.php

 

[christinna77]

While Seachem ammonia badges have been accurate for me, I've read plenty of reports about them failing. I either use two badges and replace them every month (and make sure they agree with each other), or test ammonia daily with a Hanna checker, especially if my biofilter has been compromised.

 

[LeftyReefer]

Yes, QT'ing fish with a cycled tank is SOOO much easier than doing it with an uncycled QT. I will always recommend using a cycled tank. it just makes the whole QT process so much easier and less worry. I'm sure it's also easier on the fish too. and no, the copper won't kill all the bacteria.... it will knock it back a little, but not much.

I'm also a big fan of the Seachem ammonia badges on my QT tanks. I've had nothing but positive experience with them. Copper throws a lot of ammonia test kits off, but the seachem alerts seem to work just fine with copper.

I've had no problem using the same sensor for several months. I typically only replace it when I start a new QT session. But I'll use the same alert badge from start to finish, which may be 2-3 months per QT. I do try to be careful not to touch the sensor itself and I always keep it submerged... no idea if that really matters, but I feel like the sensor being touched or drying out can't be good.

I use a bag of smooth ceramic rings in a HOB filter on my QT tank. Enough surface area for bacteria, but the smooth ceramic doesn't hold any copper laden water so a quick rinse/dip with RO/DI or saltwater and all the copper (or other meds) are gone.

 

[hectoriptera]

Yes, QT'ing fish with a cycled tank is SOOO much easier than doing it with an uncycled QT. I will always recommend using a cycled tank. it just makes the whole QT process so much easier and less worry. I'm sure it's also easier on the fish too. and no, the copper won't kill all the bacteria.... it will knock it back a little, but not much.

I'm also a big fan of the Seachem ammonia badges on my QT tanks. I've had nothing but positive experience with them. Copper throws a lot of ammonia test kits off, but the seachem alerts seem to work just fine with copper.

I've had no problem using the same sensor for several months. I typically only replace it when I start a new QT session. But I'll use the same alert badge from start to finish, which may be 2-3 months per QT. I do try to be careful not to touch the sensor itself and I always keep it submerged... no idea if that really matters, but I feel like the sensor being touched or drying out can't be good.

I use a bag of smooth ceramic rings in a HOB filter on my QT tank. Enough surface area for bacteria, but the smooth ceramic doesn't hold any copper laden water so a quick rinse/dip with RO/DI or saltwater and all the copper (or other meds) are gone.

So, considering I’m keeping a fish only tank, do you think I could directly add the medication to the DT ? My main concern was about the bacteria, as I won’t be keeping there any inverts. Or by opposite do you think this would have other downsides ?

 

[LeftyReefer]

So, considering I’m keeping a fish only tank, do you think I could directly add the medication to the DT ? My main concern was about the bacteria, as I won’t be keeping there any inverts. Or by opposite do you think this would have other downsides ?

If you have zero plans for any corals or inverts in that tank in the future, then yes, you can dose meds directly to that tank if you want. just be aware that things like rock and sand can absorb some meds and then leach them back out over time.

 

[christinna77]

So, considering I’m keeping a fish only tank, do you think I could directly add the medication to the DT ? My main concern was about the bacteria, as I won’t be keeping there any inverts. Or by opposite do you think this would have other downsides ?

Are you talking about dosing your DT with copper and prazi every time you get a new batch of fish? I wouldn't want to repeatedly expose the existing fish to those medications. Prazi also becomes pretty much ineffective after 4-5 doses.