Quarantine on new tank

Brew12 · Aug 20, 2016

I have a question. I plan on setting up my first salt water tank in the near future. Is it necessary to quarantine the first fish you add to the tank? Is there any value to doing that?

I understand that if they are sick you need to put them in a QT for treatment but do you gain anything by doing the quarantine outside the display tank for the very first fish?

alyee5 · Aug 20, 2016

Quarantining protocol--a much debated topic. IMHO you should decide beforehand how you want to approach your quarantining protocol for your fish, inverts, corals etc and then stick with it. So, if you are going to QT then start with your first fish.

If you have no issues with the fish in QT, then the only thing you lose is the time you could have enjoyed watching your fish in your display tank. If you do have a sick fish, with ICH for example, then you'd move your fish into a a hospital tank and treat with Copper based treatments which you don't want to do in your main display as rock and sand can absorb the Cu. On top of that, you are then stuck having to watch a barren display tank while you go thru the fallow period (~76 days).

Also, one advantage of QT'ing the first fish is that you are QT'ing while you are setting up/cycling/establishing your maintenance schedule during which time you probably don't want to have a fish in your display tank. So you are essentially killing 2 birds with one stone!

Cheers

Humblefish · Aug 21, 2016

My take on QT can be found here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

Brew12 · Aug 21, 2016

Thanks Humblefish.... I read that article earlier in the week but it just dawned on me that I should probably medicate the fish prior to going into the DT. Almost embarrassed that I didn't put 2 and 2 together in that it makes perfect sense to do the QT medication on the first fish too, not just new additions. For some reason I hadn't made the connection that your QT procedures are not just designed to protect the fish already in the DT but are also best to keep the new fish healthy.

Humblefish · Aug 21, 2016

Brew12 said:
Thanks Humblefish.... I read that article earlier in the week but it just dawned on me that I should probably medicate the fish prior to going into the DT. Almost embarrassed that I didn't put 2 and 2 together in that it makes perfect sense to do the QT medication on the first fish too, not just new additions. For some reason I hadn't made the connection that your QT procedures are not just designed to protect the fish already in the DT but are also best to keep the new fish healthy.

And since most parasites have a tomont stage which sticks to rock, substrate, glass, equipment, etc. you are protecting your DT itself from disease. In one study (Colorni and Burgess 1997) on ich, it took 72 days for all the theronts to be released from a group of tomonts. So, that's how long you'd need to go fallow (fishless) for if you got ich in your DT.

Anthony Wood · Aug 21, 2016

Not saying to do this but Personally the only fish I've ever put in a QT are my tangs and known tough to keep finicky eaters. I've never had any disease enter my tank other then ich. But every tank out there although it may not show visual signs of it have ich in them.

It comes down to judgement, if the fish in the store looks unhealthy don't buy it. My LFS has low dose copper in all their tanks with just fish maybe the reason I've never had an issue. You just have to know the fish. The two big ones are ich and lateral line erosion in tangs and brooknella in clown fish.

Back to ich the only fish that have ever gotten ich on me are my tangs. They are ich magnets. Here is the reason I only QT my tangs and known to be hard to keep very finicky eaters. Every other fish I have I know is eating if I know they are eating whatever stress they may encounter that may cause room for a health problem to arise they are able to naturally fight it off. By putting them into a QT subjecting them to chemicals and and undersized tank is going to add even more stress then what they already have. The copper for example will kill the health problem but not 100% it's gets everything. So you put it into the display after copper now your stressing the fish more from another move but this time you have other fish in the tank going after it asserting their dominance. Personally I would rather cut the QT stress out of the picture and just throw him in the tank when lights are out. If the fish is well fed it's out of my hands if it is going to die it was gonna die QT or not.

Plus more then likely if your LFS gets their fish from a reputable wholesaler like mine the fish has already gone through a QT process. Maybe I'm just lucky but ive never had anything worse then ich which is not as big of a deal that everyone makes it out to be.

For the tangs and hard to keep finicky eaters. I will QT them. I will never subject them to copper (adds to stress). They are only in QT because I have to get them eating prepared food to get fat and healthy before they have to deal with other fish pushing them around in the DT. Once they are fat, healthy and eating prepared foods I know they can handle a little bullying until the pecking order is figured out.

As for Ich and tangs 9 times out of 10 the ich comes from stress of shipping then the move into my QT. I've done copper and I've done hypo salinity for the recomenned time plus more days. Again 9 times out of 10 the moment they reach your DT and are stressed again the ich comes back in full force the exact reason I don't do copper or hypos salinity anymore. I cut that stress out of the picture. But I've found that if they are nice and fat eating prepared foods prior to introducing them into my DT when the ich comes back they fight it off with their own immune system and it goes away. As long as they are eating and not stressed you'll never have a issue with ich and that goes for all fish.

That's the way I do it not saying it's the right way but has never done me wrong. Take my 2 cents for what it is and do what makes you feel the best.

Anthony Wood · Aug 21, 2016

This is my 220g display. It drains into the adjacent room "the fish room" where the sump is.

This is the fish room. Somewhere around 400 gallons of water total system volume. 40g breeder anemone tank, 55h peacock mantis shrimp and macro algae tank. Then the 125g sump that the 220g, 40g and 55g all drain into. Everything you see from the plumbing the wood work I did myself. Not your beginner or even average level person tank set up lol. My second ever tank set up is that 40g breeder and that tank has been set up first with its own sump now a part of a larger system for a little over 3 years now. It still has the same rocks and sand from 3 years ago it just shares its water with a larger system. Get ready to always "needing" a bigger and "better" tank.

Brew12 · Aug 21, 2016

Anthony Wood said:
This is my 220g display. It drains into the adjacent room "the fish room" where the sump is.

This is the fish room. Somewhere around 400 gallons of water total system volume. 40g breeder anemone tank, 55h peacock mantis shrimp and macro algae tank. Then the 125g sump that the 220g, 40g and 55g all drain into. Everything you see from the plumbing the wood work I did myself. Not your beginner or even average level person tank set up lol. My second ever tank set up is that 40g breeder and that tank has been set up first with its own sump now a part of a larger system for a little over 3 years now. It still has the same rocks and sand from 3 years ago it just shares its water with a larger system. Get ready to always "needing" a bigger and "better" tank.

Thanks Anthony! That is a beautiful system!

I definitely understand where you are coming from in terms of using chemicals on new fish. I probably need to think a bit more on if I want to just isolate and watch in a QT or actually treat them. Especially since copper is a poison to fish that they can just survive in longer than their parasites.

As for the bigger and better tank... while I may want one, I am space limited. The biggest tank I can reasonably put in the room where I want it is a 3ft tank so I was going for a 75 gallon. Looks like those plans have changed. A local guy is selling his complete 120 gallon system for a great price and I might pick it up this week. Getting that 4 ft tank to fit is going to take some creativity. No way I could fit anything bigger.

Frop · Aug 21, 2016

I have a QT... Week 7 I got the Ich. Possibly a hitchhiker.. :/ now for the 78day fishless DT.

idk if people quarantine corals too but that would require spending more money on a second light and another tank since this one is full of copper (aka not happening).

Humblefish · Aug 21, 2016

Frop said:
idk if people quarantine corals too but that would require spending more money on a second light and another tank since this one is full of copper (aka not happening).

My 29 gal "fishless" frag tank. I place all corals/inverts in here for 76 days before they go into my DT. Just cheap T5 lighting, Koralia powerhead, HOB powerfilter, heater, rock/sand and a frag rack gets the job done.

Frop · Aug 21, 2016

Humblefish said:
My 29 gal "fishless" frag tank. I place all corals/inverts in here for 76 days before they go into my DT. Just cheap T5 lighting, Koralia powerhead, HOB powerfilter, heater, rock/sand and a frag rack gets the job done.

If I stay with the hobby I'm sure I'll set a Frag tank. I'd do one of the 20gallons. Same width and length as the 29 just not as high. For sure I'd buy LED. My lights don't cost just power they raise heat which means they run the AC more ;p AC is biggest energy hog :/

dbrewsky · Aug 21, 2016

I can understand where you are coming from, but if you introduce a fish that was carrying a disease/parasite, then you will be setting up a quarantine system trying to treat the illness at a later stage than you would if you first noticed symptoms in a dedicated QT. If the fish survives, you will now have to maintain that fish in the quarantine while your tank goes fallow for a long time. This ultimately delays and makes the enjoyment of the new tank more difficult. A LOT of new people don't make it past this step and tear down. Furthermore, intentionally adding a fish that ends up wiping out your existing fish that you have already invested significant money and time into, let alone the pet relationship, is just negligence in husbandry in my opinion.

My belief is to only introduce desirable organisms into your main display tank. That includes fish, rock, inverts, and coral. By quarantining everything, you are doing your very best to control what actually enters your aquarium.

Brew12 · Aug 21, 2016

dbrewsky said:
I can understand where you are coming from, but if you introduce a fish that was carrying a disease/parasite, then you will be setting up a quarantine system trying to treat the illness at a later stage than you would if you first noticed symptoms in a dedicated QT. If the fish survives, you will now have to maintain that fish in the quarantine while your tank goes fallow for a long time. This ultimately delays and makes the enjoyment of the new tank more difficult. A LOT of new people don't make it past this step and tear down. Furthermore, intentionally adding a fish that ends up wiping out your existing fish that you have already invested significant money and time into, let alone the pet relationship, is just negligence in husbandry in my opinion.

My belief is to only introduce desirable organisms into your main display tank. That includes fish, rock, inverts, and coral. By quarantining everything, you are doing your very best to control what actually enters your aquarium.

My main reason for not wanting to QT my first fish was to be able to put a sponge in the DT sump after it cycled in order to use in the QT HOB filter. I actually already have a 45g tank with HOB I picked up cheap to use as a QT. I plan on picking up a 10g tank (maybe 20g) to use as a med tank. So it's really not a problem for me to properly QT my first fish, I can just use bacteria in a bottle to establish the QT HOB.

So much to learn but I am absolutely committed to doing it right the first time.

dbrewsky · Aug 21, 2016

take your time, you can build bacteria populations in qt using the fish-less cycle process that you probably used in the display. The biggest thing in this hobby to learn is to go SLOW. Be very methodical and patient in everything you do and you will find success. I know how exciting it is to get the first fish, but a couple weeks wait here will ultimately set you up for success with that first fish and the rest of your charges as time moves on

It happens all the time, even for experienced reef tank owners. The key is knowing this and avoiding the impulse purchases or making quick changes.

Example: I really wanted to go pick up some acropora frags on Friday as my tank has been doing really well recently and with summer waning it is getting time to focus on quarantine and adding new livestock. I caught myself in the "impulse" stage and said "hold on." I have a dedicated coral quarantine which is always running and houses live rock and some other corals. I decided it would be best for the new frags I waited till next weekend because I will have done a water-change on my display and that water would then be used to do a wc on the coral qt. This way I ensure that I have the best possible water chemistry for my frag tank before ever introducing a new organism, even to a QT.

Sounds silly, but great reef aquariums are built on these principles.

Anthony Wood · Aug 21, 2016

dbrewsky said:
I can understand where you are coming from, but if you introduce a fish that was carrying a disease/parasite, then you will be setting up a quarantine system trying to treat the illness at a later stage than you would if you first noticed symptoms in a dedicated QT. If the fish survives, you will now have to maintain that fish in the quarantine while your tank goes fallow for a long time. This ultimately delays and makes the enjoyment of the new tank more difficult. A LOT of new people don't make it past this step and tear down. Furthermore, intentionally adding a fish that ends up wiping out your existing fish that you have already invested significant money and time into, let alone the pet relationship, is just negligence in husbandry in my opinion.

My belief is to only introduce desirable organisms into your main display tank. That includes fish, rock, inverts, and coral. By quarantining everything, you are doing your very best to control what actually enters your aquarium.

I agree with you fully. This is where knowing how your LFS treats incoming fish comes into play, do they have low dose copper in their fish system? If so they are doing the QT process for you. Also knowing the fish itself, is the fish you want known to be hard to keep are their known illnesses they are very prone to? I won't buy a fish if it has come into the store that day. I'll come back a few times for a week and give the fish in mind a close look because a majority of the time within the first week of being at the store you'll be able to tell if it's healthy or sickly. Is it getting fatter, out swimming more, or is it still hiding starting to breathe heavy health declining. I'm not here to save fish that the store gets in as much as I would love to. My intention is there to get a healthy fish and give it the best life possible. At the same time not lose any money im the process. If someone buys the fish before my observation week is up then it wasn't meant to be they'll get another one into the store in the future, I can wait.

Guess what I'm trying to say is there's a lot more that goes behind purchasing a fish and then just throwing him into the DT. There's a long process I personally go through to reduce the risk I introduce anything other then ich (that's in all our tanks anyways prior to a new fish, visible or not). By waiting to purchase the fish I let the store do the QT process for me. Then that way I don't have the risk of losing money having to treat a fish or a fish dieing. I leave that overhead cost on the store for the 1st week.

dbrewsky · Aug 21, 2016

It defiantly helps to purchase quality live stock from reputable dealers who take proactive steps to protect the livestock and their systems from disease and parasites. However, due to the number of creatures being pushed through most retail facilities, its more of a management process rather than a full quarantine.

Unfortunately, not all retailers follow these steps which makes it more difficult for some hobbyist to acquire fish through this system. I actually have access to a super great local fish store that goes through a dedicated quarantine process in isolated qt systems, and even after purchasing fish directly from these QT systems after the store treatment have encountered ich in my own QT with the same fish.

The only way to control what enters your tank is by you confirming that the fish is healthy and disease free over the long term.

eatbreakfast · Aug 22, 2016

Nobody wants to qt. Most of us lack patience. However, I would wager that a greater percentage of those that currently qt, do so now because they ran into an issue that forced their hand.

I have seen people go years without qt, to eventually have a pathogen go past a stage that could just be managed. These aquarists felt they were safe because they 'knew' the supplier and 'knew' they were getting good fish. However, the only method you can know for sure are your own methods.