Quarantining fish preferred online without copper

[homer1475]

^^

Truly a bad method. With instance bacteria around to cycle on the fly, and copper meter to test, ttm is truly awful.

I used to use it with prazi on the last day of transfer 2 and 4. My last fish I did this with, a big powder blue went thru it, followed to the T (3 sets of equipment, bleach after each use followed by 48 hr dry time, no more than 72 hours between, mostly 60) observed a week after , went into qt, writhing 4 days 11 fish dead with velvet.

Not a bad method, only method that works without meds, and is fairly easy to accomplish wiothout a ton of other equipment floating around. You just have to realize it only handles ich, and only ich. Any any other maladies have to be treated another way.

 

[lolmatt]

I think it's important to realize that copper is quite toxic to fish. A treatment for one thing that requires no medication is incredible and should not be understated.

 

[homer1475]

I think it's important to realize that copper is quite toxic to fish. A treatment for one thing that requires no medication is incredible and should not be understated.

100% agree, with the caveat that some diseases cannot be treated without copper. So even if its toxic, it is sometimes unavoidable.

 

[Wildreefs]

So you didn't treat for velvet. Whoops. TTM is an excellent method for treating fish that you're confident don't have brook/velvet/uronema. Like if you accidentally infect your tank with ich via a fish addition, or bring it in on an invert or coral.

Expecting TTM to treat anything other than ich is almost as ignorant as calling it a bad method.

I’ll play along, What’s TTM for $300 Alex...

How does one know other diseases such as velvet are not present? If you wait for the symptoms to show, it’s game over, too late.

And ignorant? Take a poll and see who actually uses it. Many people can’t tell the difference between velvet and ich until fish is dead.

I suppose you being woke and informed, ask the fish on arrival what diseases he is carrying along, and what exposure he’s had to others?

I compare this to driving a car and only checkingyour left side when making a turn. Sure, if you check left, you won’t get hit by any cars left of you, but will get smashed at some point by someone to the right or straight ahead or even your blind spot.

but yea, ttm is wonderful, treat ich and use “Hope” to stop and prevent velvet. Or be lucky to catch it in time, and have to use copper anyway. Between the ttm and having to do copper anyway, you will have defeated ich twice!

what do I know, maybe you’re the end all be all, I’ll do a poll later on today and see what the experts here are using

 

[Ultra Aquatics]

I’ve had great success with TTM and Prazi. Obviously if other diseases arise during the process they get treated accordingly. I can have a TTM tank setup with 15 minutes, I don’t need to keep a QT tank cycled.

 

[Wildreefs]

100% agree, with the caveat that some diseases cannot be treated without copper. So even if its toxic, it is sometimes unavoidable.

sure copper is toxic. And once velvet gets in because of its avoidance due to toxicity, what’s even worse is death, or having to pull fish from tank and run the in toxic copper anyhow.

i would guess to say there are anywhere 600-800 LFS in the country. They are all using it, or have no fish due to dying off. If they can keep fish for months in copper, what’s my controller 10 days going to do?

I have tested the water of the high end fish suppliers in the New York area, and they were very high in copper. All sorts of wrasses, mandarins, eels etc, other than the perpetuated wives tale of it being toxic and bad, how come we still see it?

 

[lolmatt]

I’ll play along, What’s TTM for $300 Alex...

How does one know other diseases such as velvet are not present? If you wait for the symptoms to show, it’s game over, too late.

And ignorant? Take a poll and see who actually uses it. Many people can’t tell the difference between velvet and ich until fish is dead.

I suppose you being woke and informed, ask the fish on arrival what diseases he is carrying along, and what exposure he’s had to others?

I compare this to driving a car and only checkingyour left side when making a turn. Sure, if you check left, you won’t get hit by any cars left of you, but will get smashed at some point by someone to the right or straight ahead or even your blind spot.

but yea, ttm is wonderful, treat ich and use “Hope” to stop and prevent velvet. Or be lucky to catch it in time, and have to use copper anyway. Between the ttm and having to do copper anyway, you will have defeated ich twice!

what do I know, maybe you’re the end all be all, I’ll do a poll later on today and see what the experts here are using

You're contradicting yourself. TTM was never touted as the best way to qt incoming arrivals. It is undoubtedly the best treatment for ich. If you read my post, I suggested using TTM after signs of ich show up in your DT, which is how I used it in the past.

But sure, "play along," I'm sure you know better than humblefish and university marine biologists (UF IFAS) that have published papers on ich being successfully treated by TTM.

 

[homer1475]

I’ve had great success with TTM and Prazi. Obviously if other diseases arise during the process they get treated accordingly. I can have a TTM tank setup with 15 minutes, I don’t need to keep a QT tank cycled.

I’ll play along, What’s TTM for $300 Alex...

How does one know other diseases such as velvet are not present? If you wait for the symptoms to show, it’s game over, too late.

And ignorant? Take a poll and see who actually uses it. Many people can’t tell the difference between velvet and ich until fish is dead.

I suppose you being woke and informed, ask the fish on arrival what diseases he is carrying along, and what exposure he’s had to others?

I compare this to driving a car and only checkingyour left side when making a turn. Sure, if you check left, you won’t get hit by any cars left of you, but will get smashed at some point by someone to the right or straight ahead or even your blind spot.

but yea, ttm is wonderful, treat ich and use “Hope” to stop and prevent velvet. Or be lucky to catch it in time, and have to use copper anyway. Between the ttm and having to do copper anyway, you will have defeated ich twice!

what do I know, maybe you’re the end all be all, I’ll do a poll later on today and see what the experts here are using

People like this will never be swayed, it's pointless even trying to get them to see the possitives of non medicated treatment. I can have a TTM bucket setup in 5 minutes, how long does it take for you to get a tank with copper running?

 

[lolmatt]

OK, @Wildreefs nice troll. You got us. Nice one.

 

[homer1475]

sure copper is toxic. And once velvet gets in because of its avoidance due to toxicity, what’s even worse is death, or having to pull fish from tank and run the in toxic copper anyhow.

i would guess to say there are anywhere 600-800 LFS in the country. They are all using it, or have no fish due to dying off. If they can keep fish for months in copper, what’s my controller 10 days going to do?

I have tested the water of the high end fish suppliers in the New York area, and they were very high in copper. All sorts of wrasses, mandarins, eels etc, other than the perpetuated wives tale of it being toxic and bad, how come we still see it?

I can tell you of 3 I visit in NY that do not use copper(I've asked, and tested their water with a hanna copper tester), so your assumption is just plain wrong.

 

[Ultra Aquatics]

I can tell you of 3 I visit in NY that do not use copper(I've asked, and tested their water with a hanna copper tester), so your assumption is just plain wrong.

I believe the fish stores I frequent here in NY use hyposalinity instead of copper.

 

[homer1475]

Yeah and with that I'm out on this thread. Some peoples minds will never be changed. And some are just trolls spouting carp they read on the net without actual experience. The "high end fish store that all use copper, or have no fish cause they are all dead" was the last straw for me.

 

[homer1475]

I believe the fish stores I frequent here in NY use hyposalinity instead of copper.

And thats what I've found too.

 

[Wildreefs]

You're contradicting yourself. TTM was never touted as the best way to qt incoming arrivals. It is undoubtedly the best treatment for ich. If you read my post, I suggested using TTM after signs of ich show up in your DT, which is how I used it in the past.

But sure, "play along," I'm sure you know better than humblefish and university marine biologists (UF IFAS) that have published papers on ich being successfully treated by TTM.

again, sure it works great for ich. If that were the only thing to worry about, than fine. I still wouldn’t want to change all that water when copper power is power right there. (20 gallons of water volume, times four changes, 80 gallons, vs original 20 gallons with maybe 1-2 water change of 5 each equals 30)

I’ll agree with you, if ich was only concern, this would be fine. But it is not, and you have no way of knowing it velvet is present until it’s too late.

And if you want to name drop humble, fine, but his method now is experimental, using h202 to combat velvet align with others. If TTM was set in stone and proven, there wouldn’t be implementation of others chemicals (h202) in trials. Which by the way, is still in early stages of testing.

In my tank, I have a pair of gold flakes, and Achilles tang, scribbled, a gem tang, trio of flames, pair of rhomboids, I would never risk a new fish with ttm and wipe out what I have.

I would even aright ttm would be great if velvet were rare. Like a 1 in 20 chance a fish has it. I’m willing to say it is far more
Common now than ich

 

[homer1475]

Ive been to every LFS I can find in NY(exception being the city (NYC) can't stand that craptastic place), NJ, PA, CT, and VT. I find way more LFS's run hypo then copper.

Why you ask?
It's simple economics. In hypo you use less salt, and your not buying copper or buying test kits. Which means less time and money spent by the LFS.

 

[Wildreefs]

People like this will never be swayed, it's pointless even trying to get them to see the possitives of non medicated treatment. I can have a TTM bucket setup in 5 minutes, how long does it take for you to get a tank with copper running?

I bet. What will that do for the more prevelant velvet tho? Ttm is stepping over dollars to pick up nickels

 

[trout]

I use chloroquine phosphate (CP), PraziPro and Seachem MetroPlex (if necessary) while quarantining my fish. That said, I have been reliably informed that not all fish can tolerate CP, anthias.

 

[Wildreefs]

Ive been to every LFS I can find in NY(exception being the city (NYC) can't stand that craptastic place), NJ, PA, CT, and VT. I find way more LFS's run hypo then copper.

Why you ask?
It's simple economics. In hypo you use less salt, and your not buying copper or buying test kits. Which means less time and money spent by the LFS.

Hypo? Wel
That’s sucks for people who don’t qt, and have to acclimate from 1.009 all the way to standard reef salinity, 1.025. And I think you can enough info of why hypo don’t work, salinity swings, and does nothing for velvet

 

[homer1475]

Who keeps saying anything about velvet? You keep coming back to velvet, yet all were talking about is ich.

Your like a puppy chasing it's tail. You just keep going round and round.

And if you don't ask, or test the water for something as basic as salinity at the LFS, then you have a lot to learn still.

I suggest you have a read through the fish disease forum before you keep digging yourself a bigger hole.

 

[homer1475]

Ok thread officially derailed now.