Question about Nitrate and Phospate control

[njtiger aquariums]

Ok question for the masses out there.

My tank has been running ok for over a year now. I am running GFO and my phospate and nitrates are not bad/high; phospate between 0 and 0.10, nitrate 10.

My glass still gets dirty and if I don't clean it daily it get nasty. My sand bed could look cleaner. I do expect my corals to grow better (some are growing great and others are going slow if at all).

Now I have a corner tank with a very tight sump. I been thinking of trying to add a refugium in there (somewhere). Some people also suggested Marine pure or siporax. I know there are biopellet reactors but I don't think I want to go that route (trying to save money).

Any suggestions/stories/useful links?

Thanks

 

[rjl45]

I am a big fan of algae turf scrubbers. A diy can be cheap to setup an operate. I personally run an upflow scrubber, but there are also waterfall designs as well.
My thread discussing the project:
https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/240710/

 

[NanaReefer]

I am a big fan of algae turf scrubbers. A diy can be cheap to setup an operate. I personally run an upflow scrubber, but there are also waterfall designs as well.
My thread discussing the project:
https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/240710/

Where in that sump would he fit an ATS?

 

[rjl45]

Where in that sump would he fit an ATS?

Easy, mine fits in a very small back compartment of a nano. It's 6"x3.5"x2". With a diy, can adjust to fit nearly any space.

 

[njtiger aquariums]

I am a big fan of algae turf scrubbers. A diy can be cheap to setup an operate. I personally run an upflow scrubber, but there are also waterfall designs as well.
My thread discussing the project:
https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/240710/

rjl45 I did think about doing one of those as well.

 

[njtiger aquariums]

Where in that sump would he fit an ATS?

Do you guys think, if I go with an ATS , that I could have it drip over the black spounge (right of the skimmer)?

 

[rjl45]

Do you guys think, if I go with an ATS , that I could have it drip over the black spounge (right of the skimmer)?

In that location you may need another small pump to make a waterfall scrubber work, or plumb a bypass off your overflow. It also might be a little tight for the lights. Ideally on a waterfall, you want to light both sides.

I see 2 locations you could put an upflow scrubber; the the left of your skimmer, or by your return pump.

One thing worth mentioning about algae scrubbers. They have to be maintained, probably on a weekly basis, or it won't do any good. The whole idea is to create and optimum place for algae to grow so you can easily remove it from the system (removing all the nitrate and phosphate with it). If you don't remove it, it will break off and return back into the water column.

 

[njtiger aquariums]

In that location you may need another small pump to make a waterfall scrubber work, or plumb a bypass off your overflow. It also might be a little tight for the lights. Ideally on a waterfall, you want to light both sides.

I see 2 locations you could put an upflow scrubber; the the left of your skimmer, or by your return pump.

One thing worth mentioning about algae scrubbers. They have to be maintained, probably on a weekly basis, or it won't do any good. The whole idea is to create and optimum place for algae to grow so you can easily remove it from the system (removing all the nitrate and phosphate with it). If you don't remove it, it will break off and return back into the water column.

Thanks for the quick responce.

I do understand for a water flow I would need a pump. I have a old skimmer which I could rob the pump from. I also understand they should be lit from both sides (which still looking into).

Now maintance I do understand and was thinking the water flow one would be easier for me to take out weekly to clean. I am building a DYI controller and in that system I have a maintance schedule which alerts me what I need to do weekly for maintance.

Here is a link to my latest youtube video about my controller

 

[njtiger aquariums]

Also I'm not ruling out a upflow unit

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

I've tried gfo, zeo, nitrate sponges, po4 sponges, puralock, alum.gfo, mini refugiums, ats's, right now bacteria's system, dsb's, dsb's with biomedia impregnated, canister filters with combo's of most of the above, prodibio stuff, insanely massive daily water changes, super small water changes, polyfilter incombination with the above's, h202 dosin, bipellets, other biopellets, bp's with non-recirculation, bp's with recirulation, skimming 24x7, skimming a few hours a night, uhhh, i think maybe one or two other things...

Then during a moment of aggrivation at still losing the battle to algae for the umpteenth time, I said screw it, and ordered the red sea system stuff. Up until this point I adopted the viewpoint of 'they're the devil and just want your money'. I've now been running it over a year, and 6 months ago switched to RSCP salt which is real nice, but I think it will take a massive amount of data to get me to switch. The foundation elements and nopox and a skimmer. That's it. (some gac pads stuff in the skimmer to prevent bubbles escaping too)

I'll add a pic for ya later, but it's been great.(gotta dig through my hd at home) I've also only kept so far, 2 mated green banded gobies and a green clown. They live purely off the pod population, and the pods stay alive from the stuff growing from the Reef Energy. I've even had sponges pop up, and the black sun coral I never feed is doing so well it's spawned multiple times and I've got some popping up in random parts of the tank.

I also no longer fear tissue necrosis. It's a bold statement, but the RE certainly has made a difference. I usually only buy the 5-10$ frags from the store, many times they have necrosis starting. After a few months in the tank, it seems like nothing happened.

I do however don't routinely dose the Colors additives. And all in all, with all the dosers, it's a pain to setup, but it's gotta be the best system I've used yet. Reef Angel makes it a bit easier since ditching the Apex, but at the time, being single and making a decent amount of money allowed me to throw money at the tank until I found a decent setup... lol

 

[njtiger aquariums]

I've tried gfo, zeo, nitrate sponges, po4 sponges, puralock, alum.gfo, mini refugiums, ats's, right now bacteria's system, dsb's, dsb's with biomedia impregnated, canister filters with combo's of most of the above, prodibio stuff, insanely massive daily water changes, super small water changes, polyfilter incombination with the above's, h202 dosin, bipellets, other biopellets, bp's with non-recirculation, bp's with recirulation, skimming 24x7, skimming a few hours a night, uhhh, i think maybe one or two other things...

Then during a moment of aggrivation at still losing the battle to algae for the umpteenth time, I said screw it, and ordered the red sea system stuff. Up until this point I adopted the viewpoint of 'they're the devil and just want your money'. I've now been running it over a year, and 6 months ago switched to RSCP salt which is real nice, but I think it will take a massive amount of data to get me to switch. The foundation elements and nopox and a skimmer. That's it. (some gac pads stuff in the skimmer to prevent bubbles escaping too)

I'll add a pic for ya later, but it's been great.(gotta dig through my hd at home) I've also only kept so far, 2 mated green banded gobies and a green clown. They live purely off the pod population, and the pods stay alive from the stuff growing from the Reef Energy. I've even had sponges pop up, and the black sun coral I never feed is doing so well it's spawned multiple times and I've got some popping up in random parts of the tank.

I also no longer fear tissue necrosis. It's a bold statement, but the RE certainly has made a difference. I usually only buy the 5-10$ frags from the store, many times they have necrosis starting. After a few months in the tank, it seems like nothing happened.

I do however don't routinely dose the Colors additives. And all in all, with all the dosers, it's a pain to setup, but it's gotta be the best system I've used yet. Reef Angel makes it a bit easier since ditching the Apex, but at the time, being single and making a decent amount of money allowed me to throw money at the tank until I found a decent setup... lol

I was thinking of getting the Nopox by Red Sea. I currently use their Reef Foundation and Color dosing. I was using their Reef Energy as well but I saw (which they warn you of) higher phospate so I stop that for now. When I was looking at the NOPOX it says not to run any other phospate remover and I am running GFO as long as active carbon.

 

[rjl45]

@Kungpaoshizi tried a few things? Wow! Some of those I had to look up...lol! I don't know much about the red sea system. Do you dose a little at a time? Weekly? What are some benifits? Curious to hear what you think. Thanks in advance,

 

[njtiger aquariums]

@Kungpaoshizi tried a few things? Wow! Some of those I had to look up...lol! I don't know much about the red sea system. Do you dose a little at a time? Weekly? What are some benifits? Curious to hear what you think. Thanks in advance,

I am sure @Kungpaoshiz can provide better Intel but I been dosing the Red Sea Reef Foundation (cal, kh, and mag) for awhile. I have found the kh goes quickly but cal and mag work well. I been dosing the colors since Christmas but unfortunately I don't dose weekly I try my best to keep up on the dosing.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

The big difference I went with the alk/cal/mag with red sea is because they address strontium, which is required for aragonite. Vs, the diy 2 parts are not specifically addressing strontium, thus they're depending upon impurities for strontium to be present. If you dig deeper into the chemistry of aragonite vs calcite, you'll find a strong link between elevated strontium leading to aragonite and elevated magnesium leading to calcite.

Otherwise the nopox and RE (and colors) I found to be pretty decent and they worked, so I stuck with em. I don't have the colors hooked up to dosers since my tank uses so little, but I'm sure in the future I'll probably invest in the dosers so I don't have to mess with it.
I did find though you can't use any white absorbents (poly-filter) or stuff like chemipure or purigen. The RE supplies nitrates in excess (look up amino acids and tryptophan; neither contain phosphate) thus keeping the balance in control for the nopox to work. This is one reason I don't just suggest nopox, you gotta have a food that's heavy in nitrates. As far as gfo I can't remark on that, I hate gfo, stopped using it, never tried it with nopox at the same time. I do however use lanthanum chloride from time to time if I feed some other foods that skew and increase phosphate. Or you can really just dose a bit more RE.

@njtiger aquariums where do you see this? Apologies, can't recall seeing that..
I was using their Reef Energy as well but I saw (which they warn you of) higher phospate so I stop that for now.

As far as my setup, I use the brs drew's dosers because they're 4 rollers and it's a slow rate. (usually 1.4-1.8ml/min)
I use a cheapo mini-fridge that's usb powered to keep the 100ml bottles of reef energy cooler than room temp. Red sea says you can dose RE but don't want to leave more than a week's supply of RE at room temp, otherwise it will spoil over time. So I just get the liter jugs then use the small bottles connected to the dosers. I dose every hour, just a couple drops of each. (at least that's my amount divided by 24)

I also dose the nopox daily, usually about an hour before lights out as to avert any photosynthetic organisms from utilizing the carbon source. (at least that's my hope in dosing at night) It will drag your alk down a bit, but ya. When I had a bigger tank I just hooked up the nopox to one of the dosers, but now my tank is much smaller and it only needs about 2 drops a day. :)

 

[njtiger aquariums]

The big difference I went with the alk/cal/mag with red sea is because they address strontium, which is required for aragonite. Vs, the diy 2 parts are not specifically addressing strontium, thus they're depending upon impurities for strontium to be present. If you dig deeper into the chemistry of aragonite vs calcite, you'll find a strong link between elevated strontium leading to aragonite and elevated magnesium leading to calcite.

Otherwise the nopox and RE (and colors) I found to be pretty decent and they worked, so I stuck with em. I don't have the colors hooked up to dosers since my tank uses so little, but I'm sure in the future I'll probably invest in the dosers so I don't have to mess with it.
I did find though you can't use any white absorbents (poly-filter) or stuff like chemipure or purigen. The RE supplies nitrates in excess (look up amino acids and tryptophan; neither contain phosphate) thus keeping the balance in control for the nopox to work. This is one reason I don't just suggest nopox, you gotta have a food that's heavy in nitrates. As far as gfo I can't remark on that, I hate gfo, stopped using it, never tried it with nopox at the same time. I do however use lanthanum chloride from time to time if I feed some other foods that skew and increase phosphate. Or you can really just dose a bit more RE.

@njtiger aquariums where do you see this? Apologies, can't recall seeing that..
I was using their Reef Energy as well but I saw (which they warn you of) higher phospate so I stop that for now.

As far as my setup, I use the brs drew's dosers because they're 4 rollers and it's a slow rate. (usually 1.4-1.8ml/min)
I use a cheapo mini-fridge that's usb powered to keep the 100ml bottles of reef energy cooler than room temp. Red sea says you can dose RE but don't want to leave more than a week's supply of RE at room temp, otherwise it will spoil over time. So I just get the liter jugs then use the small bottles connected to the dosers. I dose every hour, just a couple drops of each. (at least that's my amount divided by 24)

I also dose the nopox daily, usually about an hour before lights out as to avert any photosynthetic organisms from utilizing the carbon source. (at least that's my hope in dosing at night) It will drag your alk down a bit, but ya. When I had a bigger tank I just hooked up the nopox to one of the dosers, but now my tank is much smaller and it only needs about 2 drops a day. :)

I do apologize I thought it was in the document but I must had read it somewhere else (which I can't find now)