Question on Emperor Angel in copper

[Coralsdaily]

Hi,
I had an emperor angel raised from juvi to adult color for three years. I am in the process to prepare for move and with that I thought it’d be a good opportunity to quarantine them before they go into the new tank and mix with fish from other systems I have.
my adult emperor entered the quarantine tank (75G tank but only filled up to 30G with a few others. All other fish completed and exited the two week cupramin bath without a scratch. The emperor (and a desjardini) died the third day when I dosed the second dose of cupramin per instruction.
this was a month ago.
I have bought a new Juvi emperor again as I love them, and love watching the transition. the fish arrived along with a few others and entered the cupramin bath. Again all other fish appeared to be just fine but the emperor was gasping for air and laying flat a few hours into the bath. I had to place it in a separate holding tub (75G Rubbermaid tub) in an acclimation box as there are a few larger, aggressive fish there. Overnight the emperor seemed to have regained strength and is doing fine now.

My question is- Is it a know thing for emperors to not do well with copper med? Have you lost any due to medication? And how do you quarantine a fish if copper (cupramin) isn’t an option?

thanks in advance!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi,
I had an emperor angel raised from juvi to adult color for three years. I am in the process to prepare for move and with that I thought it’d be a good opportunity to quarantine them before they go into the new tank and mix with fish from other systems I have.
my adult emperor entered the quarantine tank (75G tank but only filled up to 30G with a few others. All other fish completed and exited the two week cupramin bath without a scratch. The emperor (and a desjardini) died the third day when I dosed the second dose of cupramin per instruction.
this was a month ago.
I have bought a new Juvi emperor again as I love them, and love watching the transition. the fish arrived along with a few others and entered the cupramin bath. Again all other fish appeared to be just fine but the emperor was gasping for air and laying flat a few hours into the bath. I had to place it in a separate holding tub (75G Rubbermaid tub) in an acclimation box as there are a few larger, aggressive fish there. Overnight the emperor seemed to have regained strength and is doing fine now.

My question is- Is it a know thing for emperors to not do well with copper med? Have you lost any due to medication? And how do you quarantine a fish if copper (cupramin) isn’t an option?

thanks in advance!

Copper is very harsh on them and I would have preferred coppersafe but more important is- what level was the copper at and what test kit were you using to monitor the levels?

 

[Coralsdaily]

Copper is very harsh on them and I would have preferred coppersafe but more important is- what level was the copper at and what test kit were you using to monitor the levels?

I tested copper level with Salifert and it’s not even .25ppm after letting it sit for 20 min

 

[vetteguy53081]

I tested copper level with Salifert and it’s not even .25ppm after letting it sit for 20 min

Therapeutic level is 2.25-2.5
Are you sure you’re getting correct reading?

 

[ReefHog]

Cupramine is ionic copper and has a different lower therapeutic level than a chelated copper like copper power or copper safe. I believe copper power is more gentle on copper Sensitive fish.

 

[Coralsdaily]

Therapeutic level is 2.25-2.5
Are you sure you’re getting correct reading?

Reading the cupramin direction, the final copper concentration should be .5mg/L, the suggested safe zone is <.8mg/L, which is within 1/1000 range to the ppm equivalent. So when I took the salifert test the result was just shy of .25ppm.
the 2.25-2.5 ppm range you have suggested would have put all fish under a lot of stress.

 

[Coralsdaily]

Cupramine is ionic copper and has a different lower therapeutic level than a chelated copper like copper power or copper safe. I believe copper power is more gentle on copper Sensitive fish.

So would you consider emperor angel to be copper sensitive fish? And have you have trouble with copper treatment to this, or other pomacanthus fish?

 

[ReefHog]

So would you consider emperor angel to be copper sensitive fish? And have you have trouble with copper treatment to this, or other pomacanthus fish?

I haven’t used copper in years and use chloroquine phosphate for treatment now. I have never treated an emperor with either copper product so I couldn’t say. But if the emperor has declined very fast twice now, I would say yes. I do keep copper power in my cabinet for fish that are sensitive to Chloroquine and have not had any issues with copper power.

 

[vetteguy53081]

So would you consider emperor angel to be copper sensitive fish? And have you have trouble with copper treatment to this, or other pomacanthus fish?

sensitive yes and if you were treating at .25, it would have done nothing to stop any parasites. For future , agood bath in general and such fish is ruby Rally pro which covers a large array of issues