Please help identify the disease?

[findingDory]

I have an adult emperor angelfish in my qt tank (27 gallon tub) it is doing great and eating fine. However, i see white spots and it does not look like ich. I am treating the fish with Seachem Paragaurd and Hikari Prazipro.
He is being fed spirunla sticks, alternate days i feed LES reef frenzy soaked in Brightwell Angelixir and gets half a sheet of red seaweed.
Let me know if this is some sort of a disease or hlle or stress spot?

 

[Reefkeepers Archive]

#fishmedic

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have an adult emperor angelfish in my qt tank (27 gallon tub) it is doing great and eating fine. However, i see white spots and it does not look like ich. I am treating the fish with Seachem Paragaurd and Hikari Prazipro.
He is being fed spirunla sticks, alternate days i feed LES reef frenzy soaked in Brightwell Angelixir and gets half a sheet of red seaweed.
Let me know if this is some sort of a disease or hlle or stress spot?

The lighting is a little dark and fish sort of distant in pic but appears to be mucus cones based on size mixed in with ich. Paraguard , no insult to you is worthless and Prazi is for works and flukes. Assuming this is a quarantine tank, you will need to do a good water change and treat with coppersafe and get that rock out as it will absorb the coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank if fish are not present in there will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I agree - emperor angelfish have this unique trait where their skin "blanches" in response to parasites. Basically, the skin become pale around each parasite.

This could be from ich or skin flukes. You treated for both, but one or both of those treatments may have failed. Paraguard is an aldehyde and malachite green. It works well for freshwater ich, but does not have a good track record for marine ich. The prazipro is effective against flukes, but it is difficult to 100% eradicate flukes using it unless you use multiple doses, and do them at just the right time.

If you want to outline your prazipro treatment schedule for me and include the point where these spots started, I could possibly rule out flukes.

If it were my fish, and if the tub is a stable system with a good biofilter, I would run 30 days of hyposalinity, as that would eradicate both flukes and ich.

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[nereefpat]

Is there any danger about dropping the salinity in conjunction with those meds? I can't think of a reason why it would be a problem, just checking?

 

[findingDory]

The lighting is a little dark and fish sort of distant in pic but appears to be mucus cones based on size mixed in with ich. Paraguard , no insult to you is worthless and Prazi is for works and flukes. Assuming this is a quarantine tank, you will need to do a good water change and treat with coppersafe and get that rock out as it will absorb the coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank if fish are not present in there will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

Thanks for the advice. @vetteguy53081 I did not realize that paragaurd is not effective. So this fish is a new fish i purchased from nyaquatic, right now he is going through my regular new fish intake protocol. In the past i have always teated new fishes with Paragaurd and Prazipro as prophylactic treatment. It has been in the QT for a 10 days now and it was fine for the first 7 days and this spotting has started very recently.
The thing is I am afraid to use copper since i have poisoned fishes with my Cu treatment in the past and that is why is am leaning more towards non-copper treatment.

 

[findingDory]

I agree - emperor angelfish have this unique trait where their skin "blanches" in response to parasites. Basically, the skin become pale around each parasite.

This could be from ich or skin flukes. You treated for both, but one or both of those treatments may have failed. Paraguard is an aldehyde and malachite green. It works well for freshwater ich, but does not have a good track record for marine ich. The prazipro is effective against flukes, but it is difficult to 100% eradicate flukes using it unless you use multiple doses, and do them at just the right time.

If you want to outline your prazipro treatment schedule for me and include the point where these spots started, I could possibly rule out flukes.

If it were my fish, and if the tub is a stable system with a good biofilter, I would run 30 days of hyposalinity, as that would eradicate both flukes and ich.

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Thanks @Jay Hemdal, so this is a new fish that I had received from an online vendor and I was following my regular prophylactic treatment with Prazipro and Seachem Paragaurd. I have been lucky in the past to get away by using paragaurd but today i learn that it is effective on freshwater. So i will try hypo salinity as you have advised. I have very poor skill in using copper treatment procedures and end up poisoning the livestock. The bright side is that that the fish is still very curious and eating well (touch wood).
I will start with hypo and will keep you all updated with the progress.
Again Thank you for your response.

 

[nereefpat]

The thing is I am afraid to use copper since i have poisoned fishes with my Cu treatment in the past and that is why is am leaning more towards non-copper treatment.

In the past we just had ionic copper (Cupramine, etc). We now have Copper Power and Coppersafe, which are safe and really easy to dose. I've used Copper Power on an Emperor angel with no problem.

 

[findingDory]

In the past we just had ionic copper (Cupramine, etc). We now have Copper Power and Coppersafe, which are safe and really easy to dose. I've used Copper Power on an Emperor angel with no problem.

thanks, i can get copper power from my LFS but they only have API Cu test kit which I assume is not very accurate and i dont want to risk using API Cu test. So i would have to order Hanna from BRS which means i will have to wait till it arrives.

 

[nereefpat]

thanks, i can get copper power from my LFS but they only have API Cu test kit which I assume is not very accurate and i dont want to risk using API Cu test. So i would have to order Hanna from BRS which means i will have to wait till it arrives.

I have found Copper Power to be very easy to dose and consistent in concentration. The concentration won't change in the tank over time either, unless you have rock or sand that absorbs it. 1.2 mLs per gallon will get you a little over 2 ppm.

That being said, it does sound like hyposalinity might be the best course here, since it treats both ich and flukes.

 

[vetteguy53081]

thanks, i can get copper power from my LFS but they only have API Cu test kit which I assume is not very accurate and i dont want to risk using API Cu test. So i would have to order Hanna from BRS which means i will have to wait till it arrives.

Api should work but use it precisely to avoid false readings. Hanna available online if none available local to you. BRS generally gets to you in 3 days but ask their customer service.

 

[findingDory]

I have found Copper Power to be very easy to dose and consistent in concentration. The concentration won't change in the tank over time either, unless you have rock or sand that absorbs it. 1.2 mLs per gallon will get you a little over 2 ppm.

That being said, it does sound like hyposalinity might be the best course here, since it treats both ich and flukes.

yea i will start with hypo and see if improves the condition. If not i will buy Copper power thanks for the input.

 

[findingDory]

Api should work but use it precisely to avoid false readings. Hanna available online if none available local to you. BRS generally gets to you in 3 days but ask their customer service.

Got it. I will have to adapt to using copper treatment so i will have to try it on. However, let me start with hypo since i am comfortable doing hypo.