Flame angel acting weird after cooper

[thecommentr86]

Hello all I have a flame angel in QT with a flasher wrasse and a coral beauty (they don’t actually fight much they did first day after they no problems)

Anyhow I noticed the flasher wrasse had developed ich of velvet and immediately applied copper power at a rate of 10ml for the tank as its a 10g QT. As soon as I did my flame angel is now acting weird. He is breathing somewhat hard, not eating anymore and stays in a corner. He was perfectly fine before added the copper. He still stays upright and will leave the corner but he does this “twitch” or “head shake” that he wasn’t doing before.

Should I remove the copper bit then the flasher can infect everyone and I leave today for a weekend trip this just had to happen. The coral beauty by the way is acting perfectly fine and the flame angel ate before I added the copper power like literally 30 minutes before I added it.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello all I have a flame angel in QT with a flasher wrasse and a coral beauty (they don’t actually fight much they did first day after they no problems)

Anyhow I noticed the flasher wrasse had developed ich of velvet and immediately applied copper power at a rate of 10ml for the tank as its a 10g QT. As soon as I did my flame angel is now acting weird. He is breathing somewhat hard, not eating anymore and stays in a corner. He was perfectly fine before added the copper. He still stays upright and will leave the corner but he does this “twitch” or “head shake” that he wasn’t doing before.

Should I remove the copper bit then the flasher can infect everyone and I leave today for a weekend trip this just had to happen. The coral beauty by the way is acting perfectly fine and the flame angel ate before I added the copper power like literally 30 minutes before I added it.

Be sure to measure the copper, I assume coppersafe level with a Hanna brand copper test kit. You are currently dosing according to volume per drops and may be underdosing if the volume is less that the maximum useable. The test kit will determine actual level recommended at 2.25ppm. Also add an airstone during treatment

 

[thecommentr86]

Be sure to measure the copper, I assume coppersafe level with a Hanna brand copper test kit. You are currently dosing according to volume per drops and may be underdosing if the volume is less that the maximum useable. The test kit will determine actual level recommended at 2.25ppm. Also add an airstone during treatment

I added an airstone that is already done and the test from salifert showed a 1-2 so 1.5 was my aim.

I just did a 20% water change to reduce the cooler and he’s already acting a little better so I’m at a loss of the copper level.

The coral beauty is doing the exact same thing the flame angel was now but right after the water change the flame angel perked back up. He still twitches but he’s not just staying in the corner anymore and he’s not breathing as hard.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I added an airstone that is already done and the eat from salifert showed a 1-2 so 1.5 was my aim.

I just did a 20% water change to reduce the cooler and he’s already acting a little better so I’m at a loss of the copper level

iF YOURE saying you aim is 1.5ppm copper level, Its too low, why you still have ich. Coppersafe start to take effect at 2.0 and you want at least 2.2ppm

 

[thecommentr86]

I just started dosing today. I had it originally aim for 2 but wanted to ramp it up. My flame angel immediately started acting off so I can’t really raise the copper without killing the guy can I?

I posted a video of the fish. The flame is already acting more normal but he’s still lethargic but not as bad and I’ll post a picture of the copper test. I want to up the copper but I can’t or else it’ll kill him potentially.

I posted a video the twitch the coral beauty does is what happened to the flame way more and only AFTER copper not before

iF YOURE saying you aim is 1.5ppm copper level, Its too low, why you still have ich. Coppersafe start to take effect at 2.0 and you want at least 2.2p

 

[thecommentr86]

iF YOURE saying you aim is 1.5ppm copper level, Its too low, why you still have ich. Coppersafe start to take effect at 2.0 and you want at least 2.2ppm

If you can take a look at the video that may help! Would appreciate it a lot

 

[vetteguy53081]

If you can take a look at the video that may help! Would appreciate it a lot

The video is very dark. Retake it with no blue lights but bright white light intensity only

 

[vetteguy53081]

I just started dosing today. I had it originally aim for 2 but wanted to ramp it up. My flame angel immediately started acting off so I can’t really raise the copper without killing the guy can I?

I posted a video of the fish. The flame is already acting more normal but he’s still lethargic but not as bad and I’ll post a picture of the copper test. I want to up the copper but I can’t or else it’ll kill him potentially.

I posted a video the twitch the coral beauty does is what happened to the flame way more and only AFTER copper not before

Ramping up allows a given disease to take hold of the fish. Get to treatment level within 24 hours

 

[thecommentr86]

Ramping up allows a given disease to take hold of the fish. Get to treatment level within 24 hours

Idk how to do that without killing the flame angel if I’m in this situation because of the copper power. Again he was perfectly fine before the copper power being added super hungry super active fish. I don’t beilve copper going forward should be recommend on flames personally unless somehow this the biggest coincidence ever

 

[vetteguy53081]

Idk how to do that without killing the flame angel if I’m in this situation because of the copper power. Again he was perfectly fine before the copper power being added super hungry super active fish. I don’t beilve copper going forward should be recommend on flames personally unless somehow this the biggest coincidence ever

I dont see dots on the fish and two reasons this fish may be twitching would be intimidation from the coral beauty of Possibly flukes as fish is also breathing heavy. Other symptoms of flukes would be red or inflamed gills, loss of appetite and scratching against objects

 

[thecommentr86]

I can grantee he has white specs. They are really really hard to pick up on the camera. But he doesn’t have this image may help it’s hard to tell but you can see the fuzz / white dots look on the fin.

Again they both never twitched before treatment

I dont see dots on the fish and two reasons this fish may be twitching would be intimidation from the coral beauty of Possibly flukes as fish is also breathing heavy. Other symptoms of flukes would be red or inflamed gills, loss of appetite and scratching against objects

 

[vetteguy53081]

I can grantee he has white specs. They are really really hard to pick up on the camera. But he doesn’t have this image may help it’s hard to tell but you can see the fuzz / white dots look on the fin.

Again they both never twitched before treatment

Flames and dwarf angels are tolerant of coppersafe and copper power and there is more going on but hard with the lighting which is very blue

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I just started dosing today. I had it originally aim for 2 but wanted to ramp it up. My flame angel immediately started acting off so I can’t really raise the copper without killing the guy can I?

I posted a video of the fish. The flame is already acting more normal but he’s still lethargic but not as bad and I’ll post a picture of the copper test. I want to up the copper but I can’t or else it’ll kill him potentially.

I posted a video the twitch the coral beauty does is what happened to the flame way more and only AFTER copper not before

There is something else going on here - the copper is testing too low to be causing this issue.

What is the ammonia testing at?

I’ve never used the Salifert kit with amine-chelated copper, are you sure it works with this type of copper? I always use the Hanna meter.

Figuring that a 10 gallon tank holds about 8 gallons of water, 10 ml is close to a full dose…..

 

[LeftyReefer]

You need to get the copper to therapeutic levels asap.

10ml copper power into 10 gal is not going to do it. That's only like 1.7ppm, well below what is needed.
Copper power need to be 2.25 MIN.
I prefer 2.5 and keep it there for a full 30 days.

You can use the below link to determine your proper copper power dosage.
Make sure you are using the actual water volume in the QT tank rather than the tank's stated capacity.
measure the internal dimensions of your tank and the fill level. use a tank volume calculator to be sure of your volume. if you have an HOB filter on the QT tank, be sure to add it's volume into the calculation also.

Once you have the correct (actual) water volume figured, use the below calculator.

Copper Power Dosage Calculator

this calculator has proven to be very accurate and is super handy when dosing a QT tank or dosing replacement water while doing water changes on your QT tank.

if you are going to be regularly QT'ing fish in the future, the Hanna copper checker is really the way to go.
using the dosage calculator and checking it with the Hanna really takes all the guess work out of it.

 

[MnFish1]

Hello all I have a flame angel in QT with a flasher wrasse and a coral beauty (they don’t actually fight much they did first day after they no problems)

Anyhow I noticed the flasher wrasse had developed ich of velvet and immediately applied copper power at a rate of 10ml for the tank as its a 10g QT. As soon as I did my flame angel is now acting weird. He is breathing somewhat hard, not eating anymore and stays in a corner. He was perfectly fine before added the copper. He still stays upright and will leave the corner but he does this “twitch” or “head shake” that he wasn’t doing before.

Did you. use ionized or chelated copper.

Should I remove the copper bit then the flasher can infect everyone and I leave today for a weekend trip this just had to happen. The coral beauty by the way is acting perfectly fine and the flame angel ate before I added the copper power like literally 30 minutes before I added it.

what are your copper levels start and now/. how do you know its ich or velvet
how exactly is the angel acting

 

[thecommentr86]

I got it up to the 2.5 before going to bed woke up and were fish in the QT died apart from the coral beauty. I will never use copper again….this has to be the worry medication ever. Every fish was fine before the copper even the ones with velvet on them I will not be ever using copper power in 10000 years and wouldn’t recommend it for others and just try the TTM

 

[TylerHaworth]

Did you test for Ammonia?

 

[thecommentr86]

Yes it was 0, salinity was 1.025, temp was good the only difference was adding the copper power at a 2.-2.5ppm after upping it. All my fish in QT dead apart from the coral beauty, flasher wrasse gone, flame angel gone, Thomas damselfish gone, I WILL NEVER RVER USE COPPER AGAIN I’m actually livid st the help provided. I even stated in this thread they seem to be acting off right after the copper what is recommend more copper like?! And I was dumb and listened. They have have started to show signs of velvet or icy (light dusting) but they were all eating and active until adding the copper. Again I will never ever add copper in anything and I highly discourse its use in any set up

 

[christinna77]

I'm very sorry about your fish. From what I understand, Salifert isn't recommended for testing chelated copper, as it can't safely detect it. The Hanna checker is the only accurate option.

Source: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-test-kits.257924/

I also don't think a 10g tank is large enough for all three fish, unless you're really testing for ammonia every day. There don't seem to be many hiding places from the video either.

 

[TylerHaworth]

I understand you're upset, but copper is safe when administered properly.

There's something at play here that we just aren't getting.