Question to vodka dosing reefers!

[dnjstlr]

1) What are your nutrient levels? Do you achieve this level with a high fish load or is that not possible?

2) Is it possible to go very low on nutrients with vodka? Less than .25no3 and less than 0.05 phos .

3) Do you notice an imbalance between no3 and po4?

4) Have you tried other methods of carbon dosing that are more complicated such as zeovit, AF, prodibio, etc? How has your experience differed? Thanks

 

[mcarroll]

5) Is it best to avoid carbon dosing if possible?



1 - If this is for the tank you (re)started in June, best to stay away from carbon dosing.
2 - Possible with any carbon source but inadvisable. Experianced reefkeepers get away with it on mature tanks. Not many others do.
3 - Carbon dosing has a large effect on nitrates and a very small effect on phosphates....and doesn't work when one or the other are missing.
4 – There's nothing complicated about carbon dosing. If you thnk there is I'd strongly recommend reading @Randy Holmes-Farley's writings on dosing vinegar and proceeding on that route. Seems the most proven and least risky. Or...
5 – Definitely best to avoid. A new tank shouldn't need it – nitrates and phosphates should be consumed rapidly by your maturing tank. There are many examples of new tanks going off the rails thanks to it. The real key is to moderate nutrients over the long term by being disciplined about how many animals you're adding to the tank and how quickly....avoid the "nutrient problem" altogether.

(Sorry for adding #5....couldn't help it. )

 

[wdavid]

Oops

 

[dnjstlr]

5) Is it best to avoid carbon dosing if possible?



1 - If this is for the tank you (re)started in June, best to stay away from carbon dosing.
2 - Possible with any carbon source but inadvisable. Experianced reefkeepers get away with it on mature tanks. Not many others do.
3 - Carbon dosing has a large effect on nitrates and a very small effect on phosphates....and doesn't work when one or the other are missing.
4 – There's nothing complicated about carbon dosing. If you thnk there is I'd strongly recommend reading @Randy Holmes-Farley's writings on dosing vinegar and proceeding on that route. Seems the most proven and least risky. Or...
5 – Definitely best to avoid. A new tank shouldn't need it – nitrates and phosphates should be consumed rapidly by your maturing tank. There are many examples of new tanks going off the rails thanks to it. The real key is to moderate nutrients over the long term by being disciplined about how many animals you're adding to the tank and how quickly....avoid the "nutrient problem" altogether.

(Sorry for adding #5....couldn't help it. )

Hey thanks for the tip!

But when I said I rebooted the tank, I kept everything and just sold corals and some of my fish away, and bought sps to replace them lol. Before that since it was mostly softies I didn't do much besides water changes and diy chaeto reactor that sort of worked

Overall the tank has been running for somewhere between 1 3/4 to 2 years I believe

 

[dnjstlr]

Essentially I want an easy way to keep nutrients very low with minimal footprint, and I'm debating between dosing some vodka with a pump, setting up an zeolite reactor of sort, or just throwing in some prodibio bottles and adding nutrients later myself.

Vodka is the simplest but I haven't talked with people enough to know of it's as strong or efficient as others mentioned. Prodibio sounds pretty convenient too, and aquaforest doesn't need shaking so it maybe be nice to try also with a doser.

 

[Bpb]

1) What are your nutrient levels? Do you achieve this level with a high fish load or is that not possible?

ON AVG, 2-10 ppm NO3 AND 0.02-0.1 ppm PO4. 86 NET GALLONS, HEAVY BIOLOAD

2) Is it possible to go very low on nutrients with vodka? Less than .25no3 and less than 0.05 phos .

ABSOLUTELY IF YOU DOSE ENOUGH. THOUGH I TEND TO HAVE BETTER GROWTH AND COLOR WITH NUTRIENTS SLIGHTLY HIGHER SO MY DOSE IS DIALED TO MAINTAIN THEM IN THE RANGE IM IN. PHOSPHATE IS TRICKIER BECAUSE THE VODKA HAS LESS EFFECT ON THEM SO YOU HAVE TO MAINTAIN THEM IN OTHER WAYS AND CHOOSE FOOD CAREFULLY

3) Do you notice an imbalance between no3 and po4?

ONLY IF I EXCESSIVELY FEED FROZEN FOOD AND DONT RINSE IT WELL. I DONT CARE WHAT EXPERIMENT YOUVE READ, OR WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN ON PAPER. I REGISTER A 0.07 PPM SPIKE IN PHOSPHATE IF I FEED 2 CUBES OF PE MYSIS WITHOUT RINSING IT. FACTS TRUMP THEORY EVERY TIME. IF I AM CAREFUL TO RINSE FROZEN FOOD WELL, AND FEED QUALITY PELLETS SPARINGLY, PO4 TENDS TO STAY IN MY HAPPY RANGE WITH VERY INFREQUENT INTERVENTION

4) Have you tried other methods of carbon dosing that are more complicated such as zeovit, AF, prodibio, etc? How has your experience differed? Thanks

PREVIOUSLY IVE TRIED BIOPELLETS. I LIKE VODKA. IT IS THE SIMPLEST AND LEAST EXPENSIVE METHOD BAR NONE. NO LIGHTS OR PUMPS TO PURCHASE. NO SUMP MODS, NO REACTORS. JUST A $7 BOTTLE OF MCCORMICK EVERY 6-8 MONTHS AND LITERALLY 2 SECONDS A DAY

 

[mcarroll]

Vinegar seems better, safer, cheaper and at least a simple as dosing vodka:
Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium – Randy Holmes-Farley (2009)
(Also read: Randy's vinegar dosing limit. I found it! (Thread) (2010))

 

[Bpb]

Vinegar seems better, safer, cheaper and at least a simple as dosing vodka:
Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium – Randy Holmes-Farley (2009)
(Also read: Randy's vinegar dosing limit. I found it! (Thread) (2010))

Perhaps but after vodka dosing for a couple years now I don’t really see how it is unsafe if done manually. The pitfalls of a doser befall literally any liquid they’re dosing if they stick in the on position.

 

[dnjstlr]

Vinegar seems better, safer, cheaper and at least a simple as dosing vodka:
Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium – Randy Holmes-Farley (2009)
(Also read: Randy's vinegar dosing limit. I found it! (Thread) (2010))

Thanks for the link! reading it now.

So I read a bit on both vodka and vinegar, and it seems like both will do a fine job getting me to undetectable nitrates. and phosphates with the help of GFO and the like.

I think I prefer vodka because it seems to have less effect on pH if I read correctly and mine already sits around 7.8 during the night. But then again we have teens around so maybe that's a bad idea?

Anyway thanks for the recommendations, will try the recommended

 

[dnjstlr]

Perhaps but after vodka dosing for a couple years now I don’t really see how it is unsafe if done manually. The pitfalls of a doser befall literally any liquid they’re dosing if they stick in the on position.

Safety aside, both will do a good enough job right?

 

[mcarroll]

Any effect on pH would be minimal and transient - not permanent.

Consider mixing vinegar with kalk to completely eliminate the effect AND convert it to a real dosing plan. I did that for years.

 

[dnjstlr]

Kinda off topic. Do you use a refugium or anything similar to grow pods/other organisms? Wondering if it's fesable to have a chaeto reactor running while keeping nutrients low with vinegar just so I can grow some more pods for a future scooter blenny

 

[mcarroll]

I'm not sure why a carbon dosing scheme and chaeto would both be needed....just run chaeto.

(Algae carbon dose your tank, if you didn't know. Corals too.)

 

[Sallstrom]

1) What are your nutrient levels? Do you achieve this level with a high fish load or is that not possible?

2) Is it possible to go very low on nutrients with vodka? Less than .25no3 and less than 0.05 phos .

3) Do you notice an imbalance between no3 and po4?

4) Have you tried other methods of carbon dosing that are more complicated such as zeovit, AF, prodibio, etc? How has your experience differed? Thanks

1. I run many tanks at work, but the reef tanks mean values are 3ppm NO3 and 0,04 PO4. Low to medium fish load.

2. Yes, if you dose much and don't have that high bioload you could get low, even too low nutrient levels.

3. Yes, usually we need to remove some PO4 with other methods now and then.

4. Yes, but nowadays we stick to ethanol(for lab, 96%). That's because I like to know what we add to the tanks. You don't really know what's in the KZ stuff for example, and I like to know But my guess is that it works much the same as vodka.

5. I like to dose a small amount of carbon source with dosing every day. Not if the nutrients are super low, but otherwise. I like to think it's good for stuff like sponges etc.

As for nutrient control it works okey. But it should be long term, small doses every day and with an eye on the nutrient levels so adjustments to the dosing amounts can be done if needed. For example we got NO3 from 15 ppm down to 5 over three months time in 26000 litres, but in that case we needed to add a lot of PO4 to keep up the phosphate from zero.
Dosing carbon source without checking the nutrient levels regularly might be dangerous.

/ David

 

[Bpb]

I'm not sure why a carbon dosing scheme and chaeto would both be needed....just run chaeto.

(Algae carbon dose your tank, if you didn't know. Corals too.)

I chose vodka dosing over chaeto because it’s simpler, cheaper, takes less time, and is less messy. Pruning macro has got to be one of my top 3 least favorite maintenance activities to do.

 

[EW_Fish]

I vodka dosed for about a year. I thought getting to where you needed to be as far as dosing was just way to much. dose test dose test blah blah blah. I run a large fuge and cant be happier vs vodka dosing. I don't know how pruning macro is top 3 least favorite.... You grab a hand full and take it out what can be so hard about that.

 

[dnjstlr]

I vodka dosed for about a year. I thought getting to where you needed to be as far as dosing was just way to much. dose test dose test blah blah blah. I run a large fuge and cant be happier vs vodka dosing. I don't know how pruning macro is top 3 least favorite.... You grab a hand full and take it out what can be so hard about that.

sadly my sump is tiny

I am considering a macro reactor though. 1 for extra pod production and 2 for main or secondary nutrient control. Just not sure if it will keep up with high load as I've never owned one before.

 

[dnjstlr]

I'm not sure why a carbon dosing scheme and chaeto would both be needed....just run chaeto.

(Algae carbon dose your tank, if you didn't know. Corals too.)

Algae carbon doses my tank? What do you mean?

And I may just do chaeto instead. We'll see

 

[Bpb]

I vodka dosed for about a year. I thought getting to where you needed to be as far as dosing was just way to much. dose test dose test blah blah blah. I run a large fuge and cant be happier vs vodka dosing. I don't know how pruning macro is top 3 least favorite.... You grab a hand full and take it out what can be so hard about that.

Never just comes apart easy. You’ve got both hands in, picking it apart like a tangled mess. It stinks. Maintaining flow in the fuge, the cost of lighting it soaking the floor and the inside of the stand. Too frequent. Too unpleasant. I test nitrate once a month maybe with vodka dosing. I tested it once a week when building up to my maintenance dose

 

[EW_Fish]

Never just comes apart easy. You’ve got both hands in, picking it apart like a tangled mess. It stinks. Maintaining flow in the fuge, the cost of lighting it soaking the floor and the inside of the stand. Too frequent. Too unpleasant. I test nitrate once a month maybe with vodka dosing. I tested it once a week when building up to my maintenance dose

Honestly this hobby is what works for you. I'm just stating my experience. Take me less then 5 mins once a month to pull all my cheato into a bucket cut it in half and throw the other half in the fuge. I post it on a local forum to see if there is interest for the other half if not I just toss it.