Questions about the new tank and stocking. Share you opinion!

[Lennie]

Hello Guys,

So I have been reading and watching a lot for the last couple months. I started my first reef project couple days ago. I would like to hear some opinions and suggestions from you experienced people.

The tank is 3 days old. I got a raw prawn from supermarket, put it into a fine purigen filter bag and released it into the tank for 2 days. After 2 days it was reading a slightly more than 1 ppm ammonia and the smell was bothering me and I heat the fishroom so I cannot aerate the room as it is cold, I removed it after two days. The tank is a bit cloudy as expected:

It is a 50x40x25cmh custom made shallow tank.

I used a heater keeping it at 25C. Wavemaker I had on hand 1000lt/h, however the front cover slows it down very much so I removed it for now. I will find a way to fix it or buy a new one. I used a small 250lt/h HOB and filled it with sponge and filter floss to help with mechanical filteration.

No live rocks as you can see. All dry rocks and wanted to use the gifted shell as a hiding point for some fish. The sand was commercially sold as “live sand” but probably just sand with enriched bacteria or stuff?

The light has the following specifications:
20000K Cool White + Royal Blue 445m + 460m Blue + 430m Violet + Pink

It has a premade schedule of a soft/LPS tank that looks like this. The lights are off during cycling but what do you think of this template when I get soft corals? Normally in freshwater I start low and increase gradually when plants settle.

I ordered AquaForest Bio S for cycling purposes and AF Protect Dip to dip future coral dipping. I dont have access to many brands recommended here for coral dips and cycling products and I read confusing stuff about RO/Hydrogen peroxide dips so I wanted to get a dip solution I can find.


Salinity part is confusing. First, for my brackish water tank, I got Tetra Hydrometer. It sits between 1.024-1.025 for the tank water after the bubbles disappear. I tested it 3 times for a long period at different times, it reads the same. However, I wanted to get a refractometer to make sure I am doing okay.


WELL, I calibrated my refractometer twice and checked the tank water 3 times. It always read 1.028! There is a big difference betwren 10.24 to 1.028…

I trust the refractometer????

And as the last part of equipments, I surely got me RODI system and a tds meter. As the seller guaranteed, it reads 0 tds.

I use Tropical reef base salt.

Questions:

1) Is there anything that you would recommend me to buy or do based on your experience??

2) Should I try to keep my tank water stable based on my refractometer readings or take the hydrometer into consideration? Im lost.

3) what would be your easy- low demand but not invasive coral suggestions? Do any of these rocks can be considered as a isolated “island” for fast growing species like GSP to not invade everywhere?

4) What would be your fish recommendation?

I currently consider one clownfish(or two babies and expect them to pair up?), firefish and yellow watchman goby. Also I love the fire shrimp/cleaner shrimp and snails. If there is any small easy to take care for species I would love to hear sea star/urchin recommendations if there is any.

Is this too crowded? Are the species compatible?

I also loved mandarin fish, but they seem to be very unlikely to except food and should be introduced to an established tank with copepod colony. We dont have them being sold as a culture here. If I dip corals, wont I fail the chance of introducing some naturally? I have copepods in my freshwater tanks and I like them. I guess sustaining a mandarin fish would be hard in a 50x40x25cm tank anyway?

5) what sort of a lighting schedule would you recommend?

Thanks for the help in advance

 

[JTP424]

I wouldn't trust the hydrometer,
Has that seashell been cleaned?

As far as corals go... GSP would do fine on any of those rocks as they are isolated, expect it to cover the entirety of the rock though.
Additional corals - toadstools, duncans, clove polyps, xenia

Your fish should be fine, if you do a firefish you will want a tight fitting lid.

I recommend AGAINST mandarin in that size tank, you're asking for it to starve.

Your tank is new, you need to let it cycle before adding ANYTHING. Your ammonia "spiked" have you seen it come down? how are your other parameters?

 

[Lennie]

I wouldn't trust the hydrometer,
Has that seashell been cleaned?

As far as corals go... GSP would do fine on any of those rocks as they are isolated, expect it to cover the entirety of the rock though.
Additional corals - toadstools, duncans, clove polyps, xenia

Your fish should be fine, if you do a firefish you will want a tight fitting lid.

I recommend AGAINST mandarin in that size tank, you're asking for it to starve.

Your tank is new, you need to let it cycle before adding ANYTHING. Your ammonia "spiked" have you seen it come down? how are your other parameters?

Tight fitting lid is on the list. I forgot to mention it, either gonna buy one or DIY a mesh lid.

I cleaned the seashell with hydrogen peroxide %3 and washed it especially the inside many times and finished cleaning with the tank water last. Did it require any further treatment?

I will base my readings on the refractometer then.. and keep the tank stable at 1.026 based on the refractometer readings.

Yea, about the mandarin, I thought so. Some people report theirs accepting commercial or frozen foods especially if tank bred, but seems like a low chance. I wouldnt like to risk it.

For the cycling, it has been only three days yet. And nothing live introduced, not even bottled bacteria yet. So no, the tank is not cycled by any means, not even close to that. I will wait for cycling to complete, no worries on that part. I am patient enough to make things work well

Ive read many people saying xenia is invasive. So I am hesisant to try it. Also i have seen GSP covering the sand or walls too. Would it basically find its way from one rock to go through sand to another? As I am limited by the space, I would like to try different things and just not have a tank covered by only xenia or GSP

 

[Ron Reefman]

You can use your hydrometer just as well as your refractometer. Just compare the two with a few tests. Then take whatever the difference is between them, and label or write it on the hydrometer.

I did this several years ago and the difference never changes. I find the hydrometer much quicker and easier to use.

Take your time adding livestock... really take your time.

Keep a close eye on the big shell. IMHO it's much more likely to develop some kind of algae than the rocks.

Xenia dose spread as it grows. But it's easy to pull the rock it's on and clean it off if you decide you don't want it. Maybe consider some inexpensive zoas as an alternative.

If you intend to keep this a simple tank, consider looking at the 'Minimalist Reefer' thread here at R2R. There is a link to it in my signature below.

 

[Lennie]

You can use your hydrometer just as well as your refractometer. Just compare the two with a few tests. Then take whatever the difference is between them, and label or write it on the hydrometer.

I did this several years ago and the difference never changes. I find the hydrometer much quicker and easier to use.

Take your time adding livestock... really take your time.

Keep a close eye on the big shell. IMHO it's much more likely to develop some kind of algae than the rocks.

Xenia dose spread as it grows. But it's easy to pull the rock it's on and clean it off if you decide you don't want it. Maybe consider some inexpensive zoas as an alternative.

If you intend to keep this a simple tank, consider looking at the 'Minimalist Reefer' thread here at R2R. There is a link to it in my signature below.

Hello Ron!

Thank you for the message. I am going to read the article you mentioned right after I am done texting this comment.

If I gotta be honest, I think this tank will be my first yet not the last reef or at least saltwater one. I have always been a freshwater guy, currently with 21 tanks in the fishroom and 4 at my bedroom, you can also tell I am very likely to maybe upgrade this to a bigger one or start another in the future. I LOVED macroalgae tanks I see in the forum and online.

I think experience is so important in this hobby. And I have so many stuff to learn. I am familiar to some concepts like cycling, quarantining, etc. from freshwater fishkeeping, but I am super new to a lot of things in the saltwater world. That being said, patience is really important just like you said, and I totally agree.

So you are right. I probably want a simple tank and fish/inverts and try to make my future firefish and its tankmates as happy as I can!


Speaking of it, today, I was watching BRS newbie guides and saw about the quarantining process in sw. I do apply a 1 month observational quarantine to my new fish for my freshwater tanks if they go into a community tank, but, I add a cycled sponge filter in the qt tank. He suggested doing an observational quarantine without cycling due to potential future meds effecting rocks and the cycle anyway, so instead does keep up with water changes. Now, I see his point of meds affecting cycled media or rocks, exposing fish to ammonia seemed not desirable to be. But maybe I am thinking too “freswater” here? What is your style of quarantining?

I am thinking, if this is the common qt style in saltwater, maybe I should buy my first fish, which I probably want it to be red firefish and also maybe something like yellow watchman goby and start quarantining while the cycle is going on in the main tank? Because QT itself takes 30 days alone anyway. I do have a space to quarantine anytime.

I see some people mentioning clownfish are hardy but also can be territorial and better to be added last. So I will try to go for it at last stock addition, and preferably when the tank offers some corals to host to make them happier.

You cant imagine how easy I thought reading salinity with refractometer was even after a couple days of saltwater experience using Hydrometer! As you said they seem to be very stable, but having much different readings which seems to be risky in general. I am surprised you find hydrometer easier to use!


If you have any fish stocking suggestions based on your experience, preferably including a firefish, please let me know

 

[Ron Reefman]

Hello Ron!

Thank you for the message. I am going to read the article you mentioned right after I am done texting this comment.

If I gotta be honest, I think this tank will be my first yet not the last reef or at least saltwater one. I have always been a freshwater guy, currently with 21 tanks in the fishroom and 4 at my bedroom, you can also tell I am very likely to maybe upgrade this to a bigger one or start another in the future. I LOVED macroalgae tanks I see in the forum and online.

I think experience is so important in this hobby. And I have so many stuff to learn. I am familiar to some concepts like cycling, quarantining, etc. from freshwater fishkeeping, but I am super new to a lot of things in the saltwater world. That being said, patience is really important just like you said, and I totally agree.

So you are right. I probably want a simple tank and fish/inverts and try to make my future firefish and its tankmates as happy as I can!


Speaking of it, today, I was watching BRS newbie guides and saw about the quarantining process in sw. I do apply a 1 month observational quarantine to my new fish for my freshwater tanks if they go into a community tank, but, I add a cycled sponge filter in the qt tank. He suggested doing an observational quarantine without cycling due to potential future meds effecting rocks and the cycle anyway, so instead does keep up with water changes. Now, I see his point of meds affecting cycled media or rocks, exposing fish to ammonia seemed not desirable to be. But maybe I am thinking too “freswater” here? What is your style of quarantining?

I am thinking, if this is the common qt style in saltwater, maybe I should buy my first fish, which I probably want it to be red firefish and also maybe something like yellow watchman goby and start quarantining while the cycle is going on in the main tank? Because QT itself takes 30 days alone anyway. I do have a space to quarantine anytime.

I see some people mentioning clownfish are hardy but also can be territorial and better to be added last. So I will try to go for it at last stock addition, and preferably when the tank offers some corals to host to make them happier.

You cant imagine how easy I thought reading salinity with refractometer was even after a couple days of saltwater experience using Hydrometer! As you said they seem to be very stable, but having much different readings which seems to be risky in general. I am surprised you find hydrometer easier to use!


If you have any fish stocking suggestions based on your experience, preferably including a firefish, please let me know

currently with 21 tanks in the fishroom and 4 at my bedroom
You have 25 tanks? Yikes! So what do you do with the few minutes of time during the day that you are not tending to tanks? (just kidding)

What is your style of quarantining?
I think I go against the grain here on quarantining. Store or online purchased fish, corals and other inverts: I would only quarantine fish, and then only if I already had some serious expense tied up in fish. The more fish you have, the more likely it is that diseases can happen... I think stress is a big issue for fish. Corals and other inverts would get a 1-3 day quarantine just to see that they look OK. Now I do a fair amount of wild collecting, both snorkeling in the Florida Keys and off the beaches & estuaries near home in SW Florida. All wild collected critters get started in a holding/quarantine tank. But inverts get out pretty quickly. Anemones may spend as much as a week and even longer if they show any signs of having an issue.

Honestly, I think my wild collected critters that spend very little time being transported and held to be sold, are healthier and bring some extra bio-diversity to my tanks. I have collected a wide variety of critters. Most do quite well and a very few that are more fragile don't do well and therefore don't get tried more than once or twice (like spaghetti worms). One surprise to me was the rock boring urchin. All the other urchins I've had (purchased and collected) like to carry camouflage around, so they pick up anything not glued down in the tank. Rock boring urchins don't do that and I have 3 in my 'local' tank.

Ask around about the firefish, it may be a jumper and that would mean you'd need a cover for the tank.

Clowns can be territorial, but IMHO, it's typically just a rather small area in the tank that they want to call home.

 

[Lennie]

currently with 21 tanks in the fishroom and 4 at my bedroom
You have 25 tanks? Yikes! So what do you do with the few minutes of time during the day that you are not tending to tanks? (just kidding)

What is your style of quarantining?
I think I go against the grain here on quarantining. Store or online purchased fish, corals and other inverts: I would only quarantine fish, and then only if I already had some serious expense tied up in fish. The more fish you have, the more likely it is that diseases can happen... I think stress is a big issue for fish. Corals and other inverts would get a 1-3 day quarantine just to see that they look OK. Now I do a fair amount of wild collecting, both snorkeling in the Florida Keys and off the beaches & estuaries near home in SW Florida. All wild collected critters get started in a holding/quarantine tank. But inverts get out pretty quickly. Anemones may spend as much as a week and even longer if they show any signs of having an issue.

Honestly, I think my wild collected critters that spend very little time being transported and held to be sold, are healthier and bring some extra bio-diversity to my tanks. I have collected a wide variety of critters. Most do quite well and a very few that are more fragile don't do well and therefore don't get tried more than once or twice (like spaghetti worms). One surprise to me was the rock boring urchin. All the other urchins I've had (purchased and collected) like to carry camouflage around, so they pick up anything not glued down in the tank. Rock boring urchins don't do that and I have 3 in my 'local' tank.

Ask around about the firefish, it may be a jumper and that would mean you'd need a cover for the tank.

Clowns can be territorial, but IMHO, it's typically just a rather small area in the tank that they want to call home.

Hey Ron!

Well, my freshwater tanks are understocked and heavily planted. They are not really a hard work to keep going this way. But without the plants’ assistance and low bioload, yes, it would be very time consuming.

So, finally, my nitrifying bacteria product arrived today and I started using it. It is up to parameter testing from now on and waiting to tank mature up a bit.

I am planning to set up a QT tank with a sponge filter actually and cycle it there to keep that tank as a quarantine. I always have been an observational quarantine guy, so I think it is for the best for me to go this route again. If I happen to see diseases I should treat and take the qt down, yes, but otherwise, the upcoming fish will be introduced to pathogens anyway. So, I believe, it is not a strange idea to let the tank going and quarantine fish that will go into the same tank as long as the previous batch compete quarantine period successfully. I take fown the QT tank when I am done when it coems to freshwater tanks, but I have only one saltwater tank anyways and everyone will go in there, at least for now.
In fact, it can be even better how future fish would react to pathogens came with the previous fish I believe, and it cna be better introduced earlier than directly at the main tank?


Yea firefish are known to be jumpers from what I see. I will probably do a DIY mesh lid myself or get one made. Firefish were my dream fish as a kid. I used to enter forums, read about fish pages, and firefish has always been one of my favorites.

I will probably stock every fish and corals and add clownfish last

Urchins look cool. So does starfish. Do you think my tank can handle any urchins or starfish species? If any are okay to keep in this tank size, I may consider one. I am okay with target feeding or nighttime feeding and so on, if needed. I might be a newbie for sw but at the end of the day, not new to fishkeeping at least

I did search some starfish and experiences, and they usually grow too big and/or needy with a questionable lifespan I guess

 

[Ron Reefman]

Hey Ron!

Urchins look cool. So does starfish. Do you think my tank can handle any urchins or starfish species? If any are okay to keep in this tank size, I may consider one. I am okay with target feeding or nighttime feeding and so on, if needed. I might be a newbie for sw but at the end of the day, not new to fishkeeping at least

I did search some starfish and experiences, and they usually grow too big and/or needy with a questionable lifespan I guess

I have 3 rock boring urchins (small) in my local tank. They have been in there for 2 years now and still seem to be doing quite well. I wouldn't put any other type of urchin in my tanks because of their tendency to pick things up and carry them around.

Serpent stars and brittle stars do just fine in a reef tank. Mostly all I ever see is a leg sticking out from under a rock. And when I feed, I get a few legs and on rare occasions the entire star may come out. I have 2 in my coral tank, but I think the one that was in my local tank became food for the mantis shrimp. Lucky for me, stars are pretty common where we snorkel.

I also have a couple of small yellow sea cucumbers in the local tank. I may try one in the coral tank after the next time we go snorkeling.