Radion and Hydra 52 Life Expectency

eagle · Sep 23, 2014

Hi, I was just curious what the life expectancy is of these lights since it appears they are being driven at the upper end to maximum milliamp ratings. I know Cree says 50,000 hours but that is at 350 milliamps on all the datasheets I'm seeing. Not 1 or 1.5 amps. From the wattage being used on the Radions and Hydra's it looks to me as though they are driving them at the higher amperage. Does anyone know what they drive these lights at? If they are higher amperages I would expect to get 1/4 the hours when driven at the max amperage? Thanks for any info as I'm trying to decide what amperage to drive my G3pro pucks at. I was going to run them at 1200ma PWM but I'm inclined to back it down more to get more life out of them.

ReefLEDLights · Sep 23, 2014

eagle said:
Hi, I was just curious what the life expectancy is of these lights since it appears they are being driven at the upper end to maximum milliamp ratings. I know Cree says 50,000 hours but that is at 350 milliamps on all the datasheets I'm seeing. Not 1 or 1.5 amps. From the wattage being used on the Radions and Hydra's it looks to me as though they are driving them at the higher amperage. Does anyone know what they drive these lights at? If they are higher amperages I would expect to get 1/4 the hours when driven at the max amperage? Thanks for any info as I'm trying to decide what amperage to drive my G3pro pucks at. I was going to run them at 1200ma PWM but I'm inclined to back it down more to get more life out of them.

As long as the LEDs stay cool you can drive them close to the max. That said cooling is two parts active and passive. Passive cooling relies on mass and surface area, both fixtures are moderate in this aspect. If you want to run the LEDs hard ensure the fan is up to it.

Generally the sweet spot for performance and efficiency is 35-75% max rated drive current. The Cree XT-E is generally thermally stable on a circuit board with only passive cooling at 350mA. Above this surface area and airflow are very important to draw the heat away.

With the exception of salt creep. The Fans or Drivers on most fixtures fail before the LEDs as long as they are provided a proper heatsink and airflow.

Bill

eagle · Sep 24, 2014

Thanks Bill, I am going with a large heatsink. 48 X 8. And will keep a good eye on the top mounted fans. My driver boards are LDD/LDL 7up quick connect boards so I can change the drivers fairly easy. I may start at 1000 mA and see what kind of brightness to heat I get. Appreciate you input. With the Radion fixture being current reduction, of course they aren't being driven at max unless they're at 100%. But you get color shifts. I'm interested to see how the pucks look and perform with pwm. I'm just getting parts in now and will be starting the build soon.

ReefLEDLights · Sep 24, 2014

eagle said:
Thanks Bill, I am going with a large heatsink. 48 X 8. And will keep a good eye on the top mounted fans. My driver boards are LDD/LDL 7up quick connect boards so I can change the drivers fairly easy. I may start at 1000 mA and see what kind of brightness to heat I get. Appreciate you input. With the Radion fixture being current reduction, of course they aren't being driven at max unless they're at 100%. But you get color shifts. I'm interested to see how the pucks look and perform with pwm. I'm just getting parts in now and will be starting the build soon.

You will be very pleased with the performance of the LDD Driver. 1000mA would be perfect for their XP-G and XT-E LEDs.

As far as the colour shift I've have not noticed this using LDD Drivers with Cree XT-E and XP-E2 LEDs.

Bill

eagle · Sep 24, 2014

Thanks Bill, I actually talked to you yesterday via email. I went back and forth trying to find and pick a heatsink. I always look at your site first. I decided on a new one that rapid is coming out with. Just because I like the look and T Slot. I ordered and will continue to order my other supplies from you. I just never know what bin the other places are selling. Love the fact you shoe people. And I like the clean look of the bjb stuff. I have a question for ya. I've run the calculations on wire size from my drivers to the radion pucs. The harnesses I'm making are awg 22 due to the crimping requirements of the connectors to the pucks. I'm gonna leave my drivers remote on top of my canopy. Do you think the awg 22 will be ok for a 2 foot run? Running 36 volts at 1 amp. I rant those numbers on an online calc and it said awg 23. If so would cat6 awg 22 cable and connectors work. Thank for all the help. I can't wait to see what the radions will do with a good power supply and PWM.

eagle · Sep 24, 2014

One more question. I went with T slot and I was a little nervous about the slot that will run underneath the pucks. I saw people doing it with the lumia ' s on makerled heat sinks. Is that t slot going to be a bad deal where part of the puck isn't touching the heatsink. I'm sure it's not optimal. Would an added piece of aluminum under the puck make any difference or would it make things worse with two layers of thermal paste? Thanks for any thoughts on that issue.

ReefLEDLights · Sep 24, 2014

eagle said:
Thanks Bill, I actually talked to you yesterday via email. I went back and forth trying to find and pick a heatsink. I always look at your site first. I decided on a new one that rapid is coming out with. Just because I like the look and T Slot. I ordered and will continue to order my other supplies from you. I just never know what bin the other places are selling. Love the fact you shoe people. And I like the clean look of the bjb stuff. I have a question for ya. I've run the calculations on wire size from my drivers to the radion pucs. The harnesses I'm making are awg 22 due to the crimping requirements of the connectors to the pucks. I'm gonna leave my drivers remote on top of my canopy. Do you think the awg 22 will be ok for a 2 foot run? Running 36 volts at 1 amp. I rant those numbers on an online calc and it said awg 23. If so would cat6 awg 22 cable and connectors work. Thank for all the help. I can't wait to see what the radions will do with a good power supply and PWM.

22ga will be more than fine for a shortcurrent run like that. Cat5 & 6 are signal cables so I would not drive the LEDs with them or their connectors. Expecially at 1A. That said Cat5 wire is more than fine for carrying the PWM signal to the LDD drivers.

Please post the results, I'm sure you will like the results. The Radions use similar if not the same LEDs. We went with the XT-E & XP-E2 over the XP-G &XT-E for the Cool white. I could go deeper into design concepts but will leave that for a different post.

As far as the puck interface just use a good thermal compound. The Heatsink USA T Slot has more than enough mass to draw the heat away.

Bill

eagle · Sep 25, 2014

How does the binning work Bill? I've read about it but how do you get top bin Cree or Osram. Is it something only certain vendors can get from them? I've looked all around trying to find top bin Osram. It gets a bit confusing. I see they sell them at different places like mouser but I can't figure out the bin. What bin Cree do you sell? It's very interesting to me because it's something I didn't know about till recently. I'm sure most people have no idea about binning. Have you thought about selling Osram? Thanks again

eagle · Sep 25, 2014

I found your leds for the reef tank page. That answers a few of those questions.

ReefLEDLights · Sep 25, 2014

eagle said:
How does the binning work Bill? I've read about it but how do you get top bin Cree or Osram. Is it something only certain vendors can get from them? I've looked all around trying to find top bin Osram. It gets a bit confusing. I see they sell them at different places like mouser but I can't figure out the bin. What bin Cree do you sell? It's very interesting to me because it's something I didn't know about till recently. I'm sure most people have no idea about binning. Have you thought about selling Osram? Thanks again

The Bins we sell of the Cree Cool White are 7.5K with the intensity of R5 sometimes R4 never R3 or less. I would much rather sacrifice a little intensity for a crisp white.

Some feel that a Yellow White is OK when balanced with Blue. This is not our preference "not that there is anything wrong with that"... But based on the LEDs we tested, the SPS Corals looked much better under a crisper white with the usual suspects of other LED colours. Average LPS was a wash...

The Royal Blue is Binned at 450-455nm There is a huge difference in colour pop between the 450-455nm and 460-465nm Royal Blue.

Overall, its a complex recipe like making home high end home brew beer...Lots of debate on which hops and yeast are best. Then toss in temperature and wort time to bottle...

Major lighting companies (names withheld) due to either their volume or budget do not Bin their LEDs for Colour or Intensity. As far as companies like Mouser, they purchase by the reel like we do, but may not want to wait several weeks for a specific bin so they opt to leave it vague. Chinese Companies will sell you a 14K Cool White Single Chip...Really!?!?

Any vendor can request certain bins from their supplier. Cree is very good at labeling. Some prefer intensity which is great for flashlights. Others just take whats on the shelf. Last fall we had a problem obtaining 7.5K Cool Whites and it delayed shipments for a couple weeks as there were none available CONUS. Eventually they arrived and everyone who waited was pleased with the look.

I've looked into the Osram but for the 660nm Red. We went with the Luxion Z instead. Cree now has a 660nm which is an interesting development as their XP-E2 LEDs have tested very well.

This is a constantly changing environment. Only recently LEDs have surpassed Plasma for efficiency and now their largest complaint from streetlight manufacturers is they do not produce enough heat to melt the snow and ice.

Thanks for visiting our page. Information Is Key. Please let us know if we need to add more or if something is wrong. Our site is in the process of a major change over its focus will still include an information only section.

Bill