Rant... I hate the direction the hobby has gone

[dontbuyxenia]

I hate books. Often they are dated, Science has moved on. They are often just the author's opinion. and often narrow minded.
There is so much more info to find on the internet. What you say about youtubers being often wrong and disinformation on the interwebs and on forums.. I do agree that there is noise but often its better info you'll find in books..
I never did something I shouldnt because I read it on the internet. A little common sense gets you far.

as others have said, science itself hasn't changed. Our understanding has evolved somewhat but not really that much imo for fundamental chemistry. The technology has GREATLY improved but newbies have no credible resource for how to use it. Thats where vetted literature should come in

 

[dontbuyxenia]

The problem with social media taking the place of print media is that is makes the consumer the editor. Meaning with print there is an editing/fact checking mechanism in place. Not perfect but it's there. With self made social media there is no editors or fact checkers in place. People say/promote whatever they want accuracy be darn. So critical thinking skills become super necessary by the consumer at a time when they are not being taught. I know there is good content available online, it's just very hard to eliminate the garbage when your new and don't have anyone telling you what is good or garbage except the pile of dead animals that result from listening to garbage.

hit the nail on the head. getting into the hobby as a new person can be way harder since there is so much crap. If you are new, you aren't going to be able to filter through the noise

 

[Reefer Matt]

Honestly if people are tired of bad info on social media, why not drown out the bad info with good? Start your own channel and do something about it. Just a general thought, not directed at anyone.

 

[FlameangelLover]

Honestly if people are tired of bad info on social media, why not drown out the bad info with good? Start your own channel and do something about it. Just a general thought, not directed at anyone.

I agree and also I don’t think the hobby is going in a bad place I just think it’s evolving with the new people joining it and there’s nothing wrong with change.

 

[Sm1nts2escape]

As a newbie. I hate the naming of corals the most. It is so freaking lame.

 

[Thales]

I generally just hate the highly inflated prices, or what I call "reef pre
mium". Some are borderline predatory. It takes the fun out of the hobby when everything is like a partial rent/mortgage payment.

The whole hobby feels like it is optimized to extract as much money out of your pocket as possible. Ads, forums, youtube, insta...are constantly in your face, selling you something that you probably don't need. I think there is way more economical way to reef with DIY and trading, but you won't find any sponsors doing those type of content. LOL.

How times have changed...I still remember when BRS started, it was literally them buying bulk chemicals and repackaging into smaller quantities to help save reefers a few bucks. LOL. Now it's all about swallowing up smaller competition, going corporate and trying to exclusively carry their own brands.

That's kind of how I see the hobby direction. It's gotten way more advanced in tech, but it's also lost a lot of the human element with everything online and geared towards sales/convenience.

I think the goal of BRS back then was still to make money. That is the problem with business, generally people want them to make money.
Now, do they have to try to make all the money in the world, nah, but most are going to try that.

We are still recovering from MACNA in terms of consolidate thought leadership. Reef Reetreat is having it's second event this year, which I think is very promising. For now, it is the wild west out there and I don't think there is much to do about it but give it time.

 

[elysics]

Correction, 'used' to be about pedigree. Just look how many wholesalers are selling "strawberry shortcake" acros, among others, which have zero lineage back to the OG lineage but look similar.

That's useful too. If you want a shortcake acro, you can get multiple variants and look up which one you like best, or get a generic one for cheap. The names for the particular variants have just gotten longer, the OG is now renamed to "OG strawberry shortcake" if you can actually find it anywhere and care about getting the OG by paying extra for one that looks like the generic ones

 

[MikeReefs]

Coral names is definitely lame if it’s used as a money grab. But most corals have gotten names just based on color and everyone calls it that, for example a banana torch or bob marly Zoa. How else would you differentiate a coral. What’s lame is when everyone knows it as a banana and one store adds the word Ultra to it and now the price is jacked up. Parameters and light determines the brightness of the coral. The weed strand names is lame as well

 

[Flame2hawk]

There are quality products. Hobbyist do not want to pay the price. Same with quality livestock.

Hobbyist are not priced out of the hobby. If so, it is due to unreasonable expectations. In my opinion. Hobbies, regardless of type, are discretionary income which I often feel we forget. I am generalizing I know, but just how I view it.

Sorry to disagree as I even know older hobbyist which are bowing out in droves because of cost. Just look at the age of people going to shows. Used to be allot of youngsters….not anymore as parents are no longer encouraging it due to cost. And the point about cost being aligned with quality is part of my point…..Too expensive to get good quality.

 

[Reefer Matt]

If you want cheaper coral, make friends.

 

[areefer01]

Sorry to disagree as I even know older hobbyist which are bowing out in droves because of cost. Just look at the age of people going to shows. Used to be allot of youngsters….not anymore as parents are no longer encouraging it due to cost. And the point about cost being aligned with quality is part of my point…..Too expensive to get good quality.

Comes back to expectations and planning. Of course it will be too expensive if the hobbyist wants a private public aquarium in their front room with paid staff. On the other hand one can setup a 25 gallon tank with little effort or upfront cost and I'm not even talking about PetCo (US of course) 50% off sale. Plenty of us started with those.

I understand we all would like the Jaguar F-Type to go to the store and get a gallon of milk but the reality is not all of us can. Instead we go in our Toyota or Honda or Yugo and budget.

BTW disagreements are fine - just a friendly conversation here, so all good. Hope you view it the same.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I don't care a whit about any of it. If I see a coral that I like and a price that I am willing to pay for what I see, then I buy. I don't care where it came from or what it is called, who grew it, who smuggled it back in their bra or kids teddy bear, who dove for it, how many people own it or don't, or what famous reef personality grows it.

If that stuff matters to other people, fine by me. If those people decide that a certain coral is worth $5000 an inch, so be it. I won't likely be buying the $5000 an inch coral. I think it is all hooey in context to what I get out of this hobby and why I participate. If people are participating in that market, more power to them and the market.

Reefing, or any other hobby is what YOU make of it. If your only taste is $5000 an inch coral and you can't afford it, then you need to lower your expectations or find another hobby.

Btw if you are calling the social media cesspool "knowledge sharing" go work at a fish store for a little while and talk to all the new people who come in misinformed and confused and tell me how that helps them.

We also talk to plenty of people that learned from the person working at the fish store and walk away misinformed and confused. At least with SM, there you are not captive to a single opinion. While I am not a fan of FB or Podcasts and there is a lot of noise, there are also worthwhile voices, just as there are here.

That's useful too. If you want a shortcake acro, you can get multiple variants and look up which one you like best, or get a generic one for cheap. The names for the particular variants have just gotten longer, the OG is now renamed to "OG strawberry shortcake" if you can actually find it anywhere

My perspective? Anybody can call anything whatever they want. There is no "lookup" that is reliable or canonical, etc. It is the wild west. Who is to say somebody selling "OG Strawberry shortcake" is selling that vs something else? Looks? Trust? Remember, that many of these are the same folks using different lights and filters to take photos, and every coral looks and grow a bit different in every tank.

Put value or trust in whatever naming system you wish, but I choose to simply choose things based on look and price, not what they are called, how rare they are or what they are named, etc.

 

[elysics]

My perspective? Anybody can call anything whatever they want. There is no "lookup" that is reliable or canonical, etc. It is the wild west. Who is to say somebody selling "OG Strawberry shortcake" is selling that vs something else? Looks? Trust? Remember, that many of these are the same folks using different lights and filters to take photos, and every coral looks and grow a bit different in every tank.

Put value or trust in whatever naming system you wish, but I choose to simply choose things based on look and price, not what they are called, how rare they are or what they are named, etc.

I am not one of the people that care about actual pedigree tracing, in the end i dont care if two shops imported the exact same colonies. But the people that do care, demand that the shop shows them a receipt chain of who bought from who to the original importer of the first name.

I do care what things look like though, and it's not really the wild west there. If a shop gives you a name and that name is wrong, that shop gets blackballed in the local community. Tends not to happen very often. They either know exactly which one it is, or they don't dare charge named coral prices.

As for choosing things based on looks, you can't do that online with various levels of ****** pictures. Maybe you can't even do it in person because the tank that the coral is in might not be good enough to show off what that coral can do and make it look just like a generic one.

 

[Renfield42]

I originally fell down the reefkeeping rabbit hole almost 30 years ago. On the plus side we, as a hobby, have gotten much better at being able to care for the animals we keep.

Other things have become problems in the hobby we didn’t use to have in the past. Annoyances, or worse, to be sure.

All we can do is be the best reefkeepers we can given our own unique circumstances. Not letting the negatives we can’t control spoil our enjoyment is part of the hobby, and life in general.

 

[Flame2hawk]

Comes back to expectations and planning. Of course it will be too expensive if the hobbyist wants a private public aquarium in their front room with paid staff. On the other hand one can setup a 25 gallon tank with little effort or upfront cost and I'm not even talking about PetCo (US of course) 50% off sale. Plenty of us started with those.

I understand we all would like the Jaguar F-Type to go to the store and get a gallon of milk but the reality is not all of us can. Instead we go in our Toyota or Honda or Yugo and budget.

BTW disagreements are fine - just a friendly conversation here, so all good. Hope you view it the same.

Yes. My concern still lies in future of hobby and attracting young hobbyists. I actually give away items on FB to young hobbyists when i have a bunch of small stuff i don’t need anymore. Thx

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Honestly if people are tired of bad info on social media, why not drown out the bad info with good? Start your own channel and do something about it. Just a general thought, not directed at anyone.

Or do what my wife and I do and just not use it at all, or barely use it.

 

[Paul B]

I don't think this is an expensive hobby at all as far as hobbies go. Yes, to get started will cost a lot, but if you stay with it and learn how to keep things alive, it is pretty cheap. Two years with my boat probably cost what I spent on this hobby in 50 years.

Corals are immortal so if you buy one for $100.00 bucks and it lasts 50 years. Thats only fifty cents a year.

I have a couple of fireclowns that are 35 years old. They probably cost $12.00 so what is that? Like 10 cents a year. (I didn't do the math, I actually hate math)

I have a lot of powerheads, some are still running since the 70s and 80s. I don't remember what they cost, but cheap if you figure how old they are. I can't remember the last time I bought a heater but I think mine are old because some of them run on coal and one runs on whale oil.



Diatom filters didn't last too long. I still have a couple from the 60s. They run but are now museum pieces, so I build my own now.



The "thermometer" I use on my tank is from the Plaza Hotel and was built in 1907 (No Really!)

 

[jimk60]

Or do what my wife and I do and just not use it at all, or barely use it.

How is it you barely use it when this forum is the very definition of social media?

 

[Gumbies R Us]

How is it you barely use it when this forum is the very definition of social media?

I guess I should clarify outside of Reef2Reef, haha

 

[BeanAnimal]

How is it you barely use it when this forum is the very definition of social media?

It depends on the definition, doesn't it?

Many of us don’t consider IRC, chat rooms, Usenet, or traditional forums to be “social media.” They originated as communication tools and evolved into community discussion platforms. The underlying commonality is community discussion among all parties involved.

Modern social media has parallels but the underlying model is very different. Platforms like MySpace, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, and TikTok are/were primarily built around individual publishing and broadcast style personal expression, as well as algorithmic distribution. The conversation and information exchange is secondary rather than foundational.

"community" vs "look me" if you want to boil it down.