REALLY need help- am at a total loss

[tayylor.13]

Hi all-
I am really needing some help because I am totally lost as to what is going on so I am looking for some outside advice...

Began when I decided to upgrade from a 65g reef tank to a 125g. Everything was perfectly fine during and after the transfer for about a month or 2. Then, we got a leak in one of the seals and needed to purchase a new tank. So again everything went through a massive change- but pulled through and was perfectly normal after a day of adjustment. The real problem started when I noticed my fish got velvet and started dying rapidly. I was using PolypLab medic and dosing as directed (this is reef safe medication for ice and velvet) after not showing improvement and still losing fish we decide to take-out all the fish and put them in quarantine and leave the tank fallow for 13 weeks to kill off the parasites.

2 days after removing the fish, ALL of my Corals began to show signs of stress and began dying. I did not know why this was happening and slowly the thousands and thousands of dollars spent in fish (that died) and now corals dying and no clue why.

We thought maybe there was too much medicine in the system so we drained the whole 125g tank and removed the sand. We started over completely with new sand and new water... we cleaned out all the filter and was beginning from scratch with completely clean water.

The corals still continued to die and along with all of my turbo snails are now dead.

We removed all the dead corals and since the tank was ick/velvet free we have fish again. All of my fish are alive and well and all of my nassarius snails are alive and well... but corals and turbo snails are dying if not dead already.

Here are my parameters mat this moment:
salinity 1.023-1.024
temp 77-79 F
ph 8.1-8.2
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
phosphate 0
alkalinity 8.4
magnesium 1260
calcium 360

throughout this whole time I checked all my levels and they have never been out of whack.

I had the most beautiful start to a reef tank and now am left with nothing but rock. I attached a picture of when everything was thriving.

Please give some insight on what is wrong and what I can do to fix this so we can again keep corals alive... it just doesn't make sense.

 

[Danroo]

You didn’t mention that you transferred all of your live rock, sand and filtration from the previous tank to the 125. Or did you just started both of those tanks and just transferred the live stock.

 

[brandon429]

youll need to fallow and qt the tank to avoid a re loss. there are no working dosers you can dose into a display, to avoid this hard work. there's ones you can buy, but they dont work.


source for claims: pick any page of the hundreds avail in the fish disease forum, they're like this above.

your hardscape surfaces are housing disease components and parasites etc, fallow fixes that and qt of current fish fixes what brings in the need for fallow.


no escaping the option, even if you read about someone else's non quarantined system that won't apply here, just as in the fish disease forum that method doesnt apply in all 100+ pages we can see.

there are some drawbacks, imperfections in current disease managment but its not like the counter options have any work threads in the disease forum. all 100+ pages of actual work using others tanks are using Jays method which runs a zoo exhibit worth more than the reefs combined on this board.

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

What Jay spends a lot of time doing there is cleaning up the mess that is left from skipping fallow and quarantine.

 

[schuby]

Where do you think the Velvet came from, in the first place? You didn't mention any new fish during the multiple tank changes.

Did you ever dose copper in your DT?

 

[tayylor.13]

You didn’t mention that you transferred all of your live rock, sand and filtration from the previous tank to the 125. Or did you just started both of those tanks and just transferred the live stock.

I did transfer the filtration, the 65g of water and the rock. I got new sand, I was told not to reuse the same sand because it can cause an ammonia issue when stirred up. However, the rock used in the new tank was Marco rock that we built and aquascaped ourself in the 125g. however, for the first month or so there was original live rock in there as well.

the weirdest part is that no coral started to die until I removed all the fish to leave the tank fallow. it was up and running for about 2 months before that and they were perfectly fine.

 

[tayylor.13]

Where do you think the Velvet came from, in the first place? You didn't mention any new fish during the multiple tank changes.

Did you ever dose copper in your DT?

the velvet came from a few anthias that was added in I am pretty sure. there were some new fish added and those were the apparent sick ones... learned the hard way and now quarantine all fish. and no, no copper was ever used in the main tank.

 

[tayylor.13]

youll need to fallow and qt the tank to avoid a re loss. there are no working dosers you can dose into a display, to avoid this hard work. there's ones you can buy, but they dont work.


source for claims: pick any page of the hundreds avail in the fish disease forum, they're like this above.

your hardscape surfaces are housing disease components and parasites etc, fallow fixes that and qt of current fish fixes what brings in the need for fallow.


no escaping the option, even if you read about someone else's non quarantined system that won't apply here, just as in the fish disease forum that method doesnt apply in all 100+ pages we can see.

there are some drawbacks, imperfections in current disease managment but its not like the counter options have any work threads in the disease forum. all 100+ pages of actual work using others tanks are using Jays method which runs a zoo exhibit worth more than the reefs combined on this board.

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

What Jay spends a lot of time doing there is cleaning up the mess that is left from skipping fallow and quarantine.

I nom longer am having velvet issues ! everything has been healthy since leaving fallow. but, now the issue is coral. all of my coral is dead and none will stay alive...

 

[brandon429]

you mentioned a big water change was that done already

also, very handy trick: when corals start to bleach or clearly die from some acute challenge vs an extended decline, we drop the light intensity down several notches and increase feed while you hunt for causatives further.

re ramp lights slowly once you think the cause of the overall issue has been found.


bleaching out your corals under insult with too bright light is very very common, and a harmless thing to adjust down for less burn as you brainstorm. be target feeding corals too in place to make sure they're not starved, dont run phosphate or nitrate adsorbers either during this time.

 

[Bfragale]

Man I’m sorry to hear about your troubles.
My first thought was copper in the display but I see you didn’t use copper in display.

but I’m still thinking some kind of contamination possibly? It may be worth a ICP test just to know for sure. (Maybe a rusty component somewhere causing contamination?) or maybe air fresheners or something else being used near the tank?

second thought is maybe lighting is too intense? Maybe during the switch something was changed?

I don’t think this is your issue but a little po3 and no4 is good for the corals. Your levels are at zero. Maybe let them increase a bit. My po3 is .5 and no4 is 20-25 and things seem to thrive (I know many will say those levels are high, but this has worked for me. Tank has run these numbers for over a year)

but if it was me, the first thing I would do is an icp test. It’s well worth the $30 to know for sure if it’s copper or other elevated levels. Second I would search for rusting screws, pump parts, expanded magnets etc. The next thing I would check is for stray voltage.

good luck my friend, I hope you get to the bottom Of this issue. Take care and happy reefing.

 

[tayylor.13]

you mentioned a big water change was that done already

also, very handy trick: when corals start to bleach or clearly die from some acute challenge vs an extended decline, we drop the light intensity down several notches and increase feed while you hunt for causatives further.

re ramp lights slowly once you think the cause of the overall issue has been found.


bleaching out your corals under insult with too bright light is very very common, and a harmless thing to adjust down for less burn as you brainstorm. be target feeding corals too in place to make sure they're not starved, dont run phosphate or nitrate adsorbers either during this time.

yes! there has been multiple large water changes over the few instances and issues… tank leaking and the velvet issue. we just did a 20% water change yesterday because ammonia was a little high from all the dead coral tissue and dead snails. and yes i have been told a little bit of phophate and nitrate is good, but when my tank was healthy in the 65 and the 125 for the solid 2 months the levels were 0. so i don’t know what the change was. and regarding lights yes there are stronger lights on this 125 then on the 65. but i did acclimate them to the light and the coral decline was rapid and not related to the lighting since everything was fine for a few months prior.

 

[tayylor.13]

Man I’m sorry to hear about your troubles.
My first thought was copper in the display but I see you didn’t use copper in display.

but I’m still thinking some kind of contamination possibly? It may be worth a ICP test just to know for sure. (Maybe a rusty component somewhere causing contamination?) or maybe air fresheners or something else being used near the tank?

second thought is maybe lighting is too intense? Maybe during the switch something was changed?

I don’t think this is your issue but a little po3 and no4 is good for the corals. Your levels are at zero. Maybe let them increase a bit. My po3 is .5 and no4 is 20-25 and things seem to thrive (I know many will say those levels are high, but this has worked for me. Tank has run these numbers for over a year)

but if it was me, the first thing I would do is an icp test. It’s well worth the $30 to know for sure if it’s copper or other elevated levels. Second I would search for rusting screws, pump parts, expanded magnets etc. The next thing I would check is for stray voltage.

good luck my friend, I hope you get to the bottom Of this issue. Take care and happy reefing.

i’m not familiar with an ICP test, what is it and where can I get it?

 

[schuby]

yes! there has been multiple large water changes over the few instances and issues… tank leaking and the velvet issue. we just did a 20% water change yesterday because ammonia was a little high from all the dead coral tissue and dead snails. and yes i have been told a little bit of phophate and nitrate is good, but when my tank was healthy in the 65 and the 125 for the solid 2 months the levels were 0. so i don’t know what the change was. and regarding lights yes there are stronger lights on this 125 then on the 65. but i did acclimate them to the light and the coral decline was rapid and not related to the lighting since everything was fine for a few months prior.

The difference between zero phosphate and zero nitrate with fish and without fish is throughput. Feeding fish creates fish poop (phosphate and ammonia) which feeds corals. No fish equals no fish poop to feed corals: corals starve to death.

Some dose phosphate and nitrate to feed their corals, but I prefer fish. I believe that corals use ammonia as food and left-over ammonia is then converted to nitrite/nitrate.

 

[HeyJay]

Not that it helps now, but there is no reef safe cure for ich or velvet. Anything that claims to be is actually not reef safe or snake oil

 

[brandon429]

Agreed Jay

 

[Bfragale]

i’m not familiar with an ICP test, what is it and where can I get it?

ATI ICP-OES Water Analysis

Scientific testing for a complete picture of aquarium health Knowing what’s going on inside your tank’s water shouldn’t be a complicated process. Get a comprehensive look at your tank’s water chemistry using ATI ICP testing. ICP-OES testing has become a mainstay tool of modern reefing. With it...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

this is what I use. They can give you laboratory grade water testing. Very useful.

but there are others out there as well. Any designed for reef tanks should work for you.

 

[Cell]

Were you testing nitrate and phosphate after removing fish? Did you dial back your nutrient export at this time? I wonder if you starved the tank after removing the fish?

 

[Cell]

Oh yeah, nitrate is currently 0. Phosphate is currently 0. This is not good for coral.

 

[tayylor.13]

Were you testing nitrate and phosphate after removing fish? Did you dial back your nutrient export at this time? I wonder if you starved the tank after removing the fish?

if that was the case it happened super quickly... it was only 2 days fishless before they started to die off. I now have fish in it again for about a month now and I put in a cheap Goni frag and still will not open.

 

[Cell]

A couple days of nutrient export and no import in a low nutrient system perhaps is enough. At any rate, you need to get your nitrates and phosphates to a measurable level before proceeding with coral.

 

[tayylor.13]

Man I’m sorry to hear about your troubles.
My first thought was copper in the display but I see you didn’t use copper in display.

but I’m still thinking some kind of contamination possibly? It may be worth a ICP test just to know for sure. (Maybe a rusty component somewhere causing contamination?) or maybe air fresheners or something else being used near the tank?

second thought is maybe lighting is too intense? Maybe during the switch something was changed?

I don’t think this is your issue but a little po3 and no4 is good for the corals. Your levels are at zero. Maybe let them increase a bit. My po3 is .5 and no4 is 20-25 and things seem to thrive (I know many will say those levels are high, but this has worked for me. Tank has run these numbers for over a year)

but if it was me, the first thing I would do is an icp test. It’s well worth the $30 to know for sure if it’s copper or other elevated levels. Second I would search for rusting screws, pump parts, expanded magnets etc. The next thing I would check is for stray voltage.

good luck my friend, I hope you get to the bottom Of this issue. Take care and happy reefing.

regarding contaminants that was another thing that I thought could be, was aerosol air fresheners. they were being used around the time the corals started to die. I did think that was the issue and was part of the reason we drained the tank completely and started over. since then they have been removed and there are no known contaminants. and i don't know if that was even the issue but was a thought.