red bugs

mikeweb · Apr 12, 2010

Ok, so the other day when a friend came over who wanted to trade corals, we pulled off one of my mini sps colonies and it was discovered that I have red bugs. I didn't find these earlier b/c my tank is at my parents house and i am still in college, thus not stairing at my tank every day. My questions are these:
1) the tank is a 180 with about 80 sump, so if i treate with interseptor how much do i use, also how is it done (how long, is there anything special i have to do/look for, how big of a water change should be done after treatment)
2)will it harm/kill my pair of copperbanded shrimp
3) i have a green Mandarin, how will he be after the treatment b/c i heard it kills pods too
4)is there another way/s to treat red bugs, maybe something that's eats them?
5) if i just take out and treat the sps will that get rid of the red bugs?
thanks for the help,
mike

BrooksReef · Apr 12, 2010

I'm not sure about all of those questions, but to answer #2, yes. Interceptor, from my understanding, kills shrimp and crabs.

MAKcorals · Apr 12, 2010

you would want to use about 1/2 to 3/4 of a pill, and yes it is gonna kill your shrimp and pods most inverts. I'm not to sure on how you could take out the sps and treat them individually possibly if you had a large holding/ quarintine tank you could do that. I've used intereceptor several of times and it works well it is just a bummer that you lose the inverts, the only thing i know of that would possibly eat them would be a wrasse but i'm pretty sure they are to small for them to spot out.

soccerbag · Apr 13, 2010

Hooked is correct with the dosage. It may / may not kill the shrimp. I have treated my tank a few times over the years and never lost a shrimp. Others do have casualties. Hermits will perish for sure though (although I have a Porcelain crab that has made it everytime). If your shrimp are healthy and have been in the tank a while, they have a chance. If they are stressed or unhealthy, this will likely push them over the edge. You will want to have plenty of carbon on standby. Here is a good process to follow:

1) Turn off air intake for skimmer (you want water flowing through every piece of equipment as usual) If you have a UV, turn off the the light but still have water flowing through it. You want water running through the skimmer but no bubbles.

2) Crush Interceptor pill and stir well with tank water (completely disolve). Apply to display tank in a high flow area. Let the treatment stay in the tank for 8-12 hours.

3) Once the time period is up for treatment, turn skimmer intake back on and start running carbon. The carbon helps to take the medication out of the water. I typically will run carbon for 12 hours and then perform a water change. I have done anywhere between a 10-25% water change.

4) Look closely at your corals about 5-7 days later - there may be some new hatchlings that the Interceptor did not kill. It may be necessary to do a treatment 1 week after initial dose. Not always though. You should notice an immediate improvement in polyp extension (and sometimes color).

If you have any other questions, please post them. It's always nerve racking dosing the tank for the first time. However, it's really not a big deal. Good luck.

Reefhabit · Apr 13, 2010

I have successfully treated red bugs using Marine Melafix and a number of other SPS parasites with this stuff.
Take some of your tank water into a container tall enough for your acro colony. Place your colony into the reserved water and add Marine Melafix as directed. I have dosed more than suddested to my dip preperation with no adverse effects on the coral itself.
Now take a turkey baster and start basting the hell out of the acro while in the container. You will notice arthropods and flat worms of all kinds (if you have worms) dying off, and all other strange creatures crawling off and out of your acro colony. Baste your colony for only 3-5 minutes and repeat several days later if you notice any stragglers. I think it is the best all natural flat worm dip period. You are going to see more than just dead red bugs littering the bottom of your container after you are done. I do this to all my wild or ocean cultured acros before I put them in my tank. Never lost or stressed out a single colony.
Try this before you nuke your whole system.

mikeweb said:
Ok, so the other day when a friend came over who wanted to trade corals, we pulled off one of my mini sps colonies and it was discovered that I have red bugs. I didn't find these earlier b/c my tank is at my parents house and i am still in college, thus not stairing at my tank every day. My questions are these:
1) the tank is a 180 with about 80 sump, so if i treate with interseptor how much do i use, also how is it done (how long, is there anything special i have to do/look for, how big of a water change should be done after treatment)
2)will it harm/kill my pair of copperbanded shrimp
3) i have a green Mandarin, how will he be after the treatment b/c i heard it kills pods too
4)is there another way/s to treat red bugs, maybe something that's eats them?
5) if i just take out and treat the sps will that get rid of the red bugs?
thanks for the help,
mike

mikeweb · Apr 13, 2010

so removing the sps and treating them in a large holding tank won't work?
so it is just one pill for the whole tankor a half of a pill?
will it harm Anemones?
mike

nater · Apr 13, 2010

here is a link Melevsreef.com - Interceptor | Red Bug treatment

nater · Apr 13, 2010

i would try treating the colony first and keep an eye on it. if it dosn't seem stressed or anything , they are probably not causing damage yet. or any at all. i am going threw my 6th treatment with interceptor as we speak. i had a pistol shrimp and it died right away. as far as pods. first time around i saw them all over the place a week after. if you decide to treat your tank, i would let the treatment run for 24-48 hours even. like i said this is my second time around treating for them. first time i only treated for 12 hours , then did water change and ran carbon. that didn't work , so now i am soaking for 48 hours. i have even heard that the medicine becomes benign after a certain amount of time. the carbon is a precaution/removal of let over medicine in the water column. the skimmer also will go a bit bubble crazy pulling out the medicine as well. i have to say , when i only dose for 12 hours and started skimming , there was a butt load of skimming right away. now as i run it for 48 hours , i start skimming , and i don't get any instant skimming. probably due to the fact that the medicine became benign.

mikeweb · Apr 13, 2010

does the medicine kill snails too? what about starfish?

Myteemouse · Apr 13, 2010

Ive trated for red bug three times and my pistol shrimp and my peppermint chrimp along with the emerald crab made it just fine.
I duble doesed (whole pill) for exactly 6 hours then did a 25% water change then ran carbon..
RED BUG DEAD INVERTS ALIVE!

stunreefer · Apr 13, 2010

Dustin Dorton (of ORA) was the one to "publish" the original information on Milbemycin Oxime and it's effect on certain arthropods, which Tegastes acroporanus (red bugs) happen to be: The "CURE" for Red Acro Bugs : General Reefkeeping Discussion The recommendation is to use the pill for "Large Dogs, 51-100 punds" (white box). These pills contain 23mg of Milbemycin Oxime. Dustin recommended use of 1 pill per ~380 gallons (or 25mg (0.025 grams) per 10 gallons of actual tank water). Dustin recommended a 6 hour exposure time, followed by a minimum of 25% water change and immediate carbon use (see link above for more).

Later, Eric Borneman did more research on these methods and found many of these little critters would make it through that dosage. He found that dosages exceeding 10X (1 pill per ~38 gallons) the original recommendation of Dustin would NOT harm coral in any way, and since hobbysists have done treatements of 30X+ the original recommendation (although I wouldn't got hat overboard ;)). Borneman did note that time of the exposure had much more to do with total iradication than dosage amount, and noted that 12 hours was sufficient, but as mentioned above, secondary (and possibly third) treatments should ensue to ensure total irradication.

I treated my display once a few years ago, and helped several hobbyists treat theirs as well. I use 10X Dustin's dosage, 1 pill per 38 gallons of water, for 12 hours, followed by 25% water change and use of activated carbon. I repeat 25% water change the next day and replace the carbon. I repeat treatment at least twice, 7-10 days apart. Every time I've done it I have seen some pods survive, but many do die off, so the water changes and carbon is very beneficial.

To answer your original questions:

1.) If using the 10X dose, you'll want to use just shy of 7 pills (6.8 ;)). you would be OK with 6 pills though. Remember you need to account for actual water volume. If it's a 180 gallon tank, it probably only has about 150 gallons in it based on water line, glass thickness, displacement of water by rock and sand, etc. You want to account for the same in your sump... no sump runs to the rim (or shouldn't), along with the water in your plumbing and equipment (best guess). It doesn't need to be "dead on" as with other medications, but as close as possible is always good.

2.) In your case I would remove your shrimp just to be safe. I have seen shrimp make it, and some not (cleaner shrimp, Lysmata amboinensis).

3.) I would introduce additional copepods after the treatment.

4.) Not that's worth it in the long run and will garantee their irradication. If you want them gone for sure, just use Interceptor.

5.) You could do this, but I would leave the tank fallow for at least a month. Treat ALL Acropora in a seperate tank.

It will not kill anemones, snails or starfish.
Make sure to have a powerhead pointing towards the surface of the water to increase oxygenation since your skimmer will be off.

mikeweb · Apr 13, 2010

thanks for all the info and the help.
i have another question, live rock removed from the system with the red bugs, does that live rock have red bugs on them? i ask b/c i sent up another take using live rock from the system like 6 months ago before i found out that i had red bugs. the other tank has no sps in it, just lps and zoas, however, does that mean that frags from that other tank could have red bugs?
mike