Reef auctions with FIXED END TIME -vs- MOVING END TIME ("xyz" minutes after last bid): Which do you prefer?

Which is better for reef auctions?

  • FIXED END TIME: Auctions end at a fixed time that's announced at the beginning of the auction.

    Votes: 29 63.0%
  • MOVING END TIME: Auctions end "xyz" minutes after the last bid.

    Votes: 5 10.9%
  • I actually use both types of auctions. I don't care as long as the bidding is fair and fun.

    Votes: 2 4.3%
  • I don't even like auctions.

    Votes: 10 21.7%

  • Total voters
    46

killer2001

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Moving end time is a joke. This benefits the seller only by allowing the price to continue to hike up. Main part of the fun is competing with other buyers into coming up with the winning number that'll win you the auction at the very end. Sure there are sniping tools, just like there are hacks in video games, but we still play them.
 

Cell

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Fixed results in better deals for the consumer, I think, but also some risk of missing out if you don't bid aggressively. Popcorn bidding favors the deep pockets and vendor.
 

Daenion

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Fixed results in better deals for the consumer, I think, but also some risk of missing out if you don't bid aggressively. Popcorn bidding favors the deep pockets and vendor.
I was coming to say this. One is a classic online event of whoever is the fastest wins. The other is seller will get the most for his/her goods. I prefer fixed time as well even though I usually forget to do the last minute frenzy and not get much.
 

KrisReef

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Non-sniping bidders object to sniping, claiming that it is unfair to place bids at a point when it is impossible or unfeasible for other bidders to evaluate and possibly counter the bid, causing them to lose auctions even though they would have been willing to meet the winning bid amount with a counter-bid. This could lead them to chose not to bid on future auctions. As a result, sniping has a negative impact on the growth rate of the auction platform.

Snipping only benefits the sniper.
I liked the rest of your post but disagree with the last part.
Sniper action still yields the highest bid but it happens at the preset “ end of the auction” time. Popular or one-of-a-kind items will attract dedicated snipers and proxy bidders who can not hang around for 5 days but they are willing to pay a price that they enter and then hope for the best outcome.

I have to say that sometimes I go back to an auction site that has ended and a week or three after the auction has ended I think I would like to enter a higher bid, but I cant, the auction has ended. Having auctions that don’t end until the highest bid is entered should never end, right?
 

Ben549

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I'll chime in on this, Its called "Popcorn Bidding" Essentially, if a bid is placed on an item within the last 1 minute of the auction, bidding on that particular item will extend for 2 minutes. Bidding on that item continues until there are no more bids placed within the final minutes. This will ensure whoever is willing to pay the most gets the item, not whoever has the fastest hands when the auction closes.

Popcorn Bidding is the exact same thing as if you where going to a live auction house and the auctioneer says "going once, going twice, ect. If someone comes in with a higher bid while he's saying that he then continues asking if anyone wants to bid higher. Doing this allows the person that was outbid a fair chance to rebid.

Also Ebay is not, by any definition, a true auction. A true auction allows bidders to defend their prior high bids until they decide to stop. On eBay, a pre-set timer stops competitive bidding. This countdown timer, in fact, favors bidders with sniping tools and fast internet connections not the seller.

The vast majority of auctioneers and auction houses who offer online auctions utilize modern online auction software. This software allows extended bidding, so that everyone can participate.

The purpose of auctions is for the vendors to get the best pricing that customers are willing to pay and it also allows the buyers to decide themselves the maximum they want to pay to take it home.

For those that don't want to wait around to see how many times it gets bid up, they can always place a "Proxy Bid" for the top price they are willing to pay and then allow the computer system to bid for them by the minimal bid increment until someone places a higher bid than their maximum.

If vendors allow customers to "snipe" corals at the last minute then they are leaving money on the table and eventually will have to stop doing auctions all together.

As a buyer if i'm willing to pay more than someone else is for the item then, I should be able to do that.

Non-sniping bidders object to sniping, claiming that it is unfair to place bids at a point when it is impossible or unfeasible for other bidders to evaluate and possibly counter the bid, causing them to lose auctions even though they would have been willing to meet the winning bid amount with a counter-bid. This could lead them to chose not to bid on future auctions. As a result, sniping has a negative impact on the growth rate of the auction platform.

Snipping only benefits the sniper.
I'm really struggling to see how popcorn bidding is more fair vs a fixed end time since either way, you can just enter the maximum amount you want to pay. The problem I see with popcorn bidding is that it preys upon people who might not have enough self-control to stick to the maximum amount they are willing to pay (or can afford). This can land people in debt or unable to pay for the auctions. We know this is happening because people are being offered 2nd chances because the winning bidder backed out.

With respect, I don't see how this could be valid:
If vendors allow customers to "snipe" corals at the last minute then they are leaving money on the table and eventually will have to stop doing auctions all together.
Sniping doesn't change the maximum bid that someone is willing to pay/ the proxy bid that's been entered. It just preys on people. This is very similar to what it's like for people with gambling addictions.

If the vendor is really at risk of losing money, they should start the bidding for each item at the lowest they are willing to accept (given their business cost structure). It's disingenuous to start auctions at $1, say that people get to set their own price, and then say that the vendor isn't making enough money.

It's plain and simple, if auctions aren't profitable for a vendor, then they shouldn't have them. If they are profitable, then they should cater to the buying experience customers are looking for. In this case and context, choosing popcorn bidding might be viewed as the vendor being greedy.

Can you provide more information about how sniping is causing the vendors to lose money on the auction? I'm skeptical but open to hearing any proof points you have.

Non-sniping bidders object to sniping, claiming that it is unfair to place bids at a point when it is impossible or unfeasible for other bidders to evaluate and possibly counter the bid, causing them to lose auctions even though they would have been willing to meet the winning bid amount with a counter-bid. This could lead them to chose not to bid on future auctions. As a result, sniping has a negative impact on the growth rate of the auction platform.

Snipping only benefits the sniper.
I don't see this as a point that should carry much weight for two reasons. First, only 13% of R2R voters actually prefer moving end-time auctions(and clearly R2R voters are the most important ;) ). Second, this is literally the point of proxy bidding. Why have the proxy bidding feature at all then?

Saying that snipers have a
negative impact on the growth rate of the auction platform.
isn't true at all. As a case study example, look at eBay, it's grown tremendously even with snipers.
Are you making this statement because you are paid a percentage of what the coral actually sells for? I would have assumed you were paid by the number of auctions, not their end price. Just to be clear, there's nothing wrong with you hosting auctions and making money from them; it's your business. I'm just trying to understand the logic behind your statement.
 

Cell

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Define "sniper" in terms of an auction.

Anyone who joins at the last few minutes and bids on things? What is the difference between someone who joins near the end of the auction and bids vs someone who has bid throughout an auction, but is also there at the end still bidding? I think anyone with deep pockets that snags a bunch of stuff in auctions can have a negative effect on growth rate of an auction if growth rate = # of bidders, regardless of when they started bidding.

More concerning to me than someone with deep pockets coming in and sniping a bunch of stuff at the end of an auction is that if a vendor isn't getting the amount they desire for a particular item, it would be very easy to bid it up themselves. If I get outbid by a few dollars at the end of an auction, so be it. What is really annoying is when you are going back and forth for some time with incremental bids, then there is a lull and all of the sudden someone comes in and raises the bid a significant amount. Sure, there may be some strategy in scaring other bidders away, but it really doesn't make much sense for a buyer to go significantly higher than they need to.
 
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Cell

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I think also when putting many items in an auction, there is an understanding that you may lose money on some stuff, but also may make it up with extra profits on other items. I've seen many livesale frags go for higher than they normally would have in a typical livesale, for instance, same as I've seen stuff go for below market value.
 

Ben549

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Define "sniper" in terms of an auction.

Anyone who joins at the last few minutes and bids on things? What is the difference between someone who joins near the end of the auction and bids vs someone who has bid throughout an auction, but is also there at the end still bidding? I think anyone with deep pockets that snags a bunch of stuff in auctions can have a negative effect on growth rate of an auction if growth rate = # of bidders, regardless of when they started bidding.

More concerning to me than someone with deep pockets coming in and sniping a bunch of stuff at the end of an auction is that if a vendor isn't getting the amount they desire for a particular item, it would be very easy to bid it up themselves. If I get outbid by a few dollars at the end of an auction, so be it. What is really annoying is when you are going back and forth for some time with incremental bids, then there is a lull and all of the sudden someone comes in and raises the bid a significant amount. Sure, there may be some strategy in scaring other bidders away, but it really doesn't make much sense for a buyer to go significantly higher than they need to.
You make some solid points.

I didn't consider the number of bidders as being important for the platform growth rate.

I also agree with your concern about artificially raised prices in auctions. I think that a 3rd party auction site would address that concern.
 

Cell

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How would a 3rd party auction site help? It would be super easy to have someone just start an account and bid as needed regardless of platform.
 

Ben549

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How would a 3rd party auction site help? It would be super easy to have someone just start an account and bid as needed regardless of platform.
it would create a neutral party that can oversee who is bidding. if someone creates an account with the same address as the vendor, that would be a red flag. if someone is bidding up auctions and not paying, that's a red flag.
 

Doctorgori

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Just read this whole thread…wow some good points made….

related but also un-related … I’ve always wondered why there isn’t a Saltwater equivalent to “Aquabid.com” …
or would it even work?
 

Ben549

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Just read this whole thread…wow some good points made….

related but also un-related … I’ve always wondered why there isn’t a Saltwater equivalent to “Aquabid.com” …
or would it even work?
viceland GIF by MOST EXPENSIVEST
 

Derrick0580

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And while we are on the subject, this forcing the bidder to buy a shipping module before they make their first bid is BS as well. Nowhere have I ever seen any of them say the module is refundable if the bidder doesn’t actually win any auctions. I prefer buying something knowing that the price will be the combined total plus the cost of shipping at checkout.
 

Ben549

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And while we are on the subject, this forcing the bidder to buy a shipping module before they make their first bid is BS as well. Nowhere have I ever seen any of them say the module is refundable if the bidder doesn’t actually win any auctions. I prefer buying something knowing that the price will be the combined total plus the cost of shipping at checkout.
who is doing that? I'd never buy a shipping module first!
 

Coral Websites

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Are you making this statement because you are paid a percentage of what the coral actually sells for? I would have assumed you were paid by the number of auctions, not their end price. Just to be clear, there's nothing wrong with you hosting auctions and making money from them; it's your business. I'm just trying to understand the logic behind your statement.
im just an employee, im not paid any commissions or by how many they sell or don't sell, so it's not personal. My comments are based on having setup, run and then analyzing thousands of online auctions. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, i was just trying to give you a different perspective to consider. The fact that we are having this conversation at all gives you some idea of how popular these have become and are probably here to stay for a while.

It's a different selling platform that some people may or may not like. Not that anyone on here would try to beat the systems in place to try to keep these fair, but we do see a great deal of people that do. It's my opinion that overall having popcorn bidding in place gives the most amount of people a fair chance to participate.

From a buyers stand point i can see how sniping might be preferred, heck I'd like to snipe my next car. But from a businesses stand point, they try to make it as fair as it can be for everyone involved and that has led a lot of them in the direction of popcorn bidding. Thankfully we have the option to participate or still enjoy the widely popular live sales they host here on R2R or directly from wysiwyg collections on the different store websites.
 

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And while we are on the subject, this forcing the bidder to buy a shipping module before they make their first bid is BS as well. Nowhere have I ever seen any of them say the module is refundable if the bidder doesn’t actually win any auctions. I prefer buying something knowing that the price will be the combined total plus the cost of shipping at checkout.
ive never seen this happen, thats new.
 

Cell

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I think using the term "snipe" in an auction format as some sort of derogatory description isn't really fair. I'm still unclear what the exact definition is and how a fixed end auction vs a popcorn auction changes the impact a "sniper" can have. If it's simply someone who comes in at the last minute and bids on stuff, well isn't that the name of the game? If they are willing to pay more than anyone else, they likely would have done so regardless of when the bid was placed.
 

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I think using the term "snipe" in an auction format as some sort of derogatory description isn't really fair. I'm still unclear what the exact definition is and how a fixed end auction vs a popcorn auction changes the impact a "sniper" can have. If it's simply someone who comes in at the last minute and bids on stuff, well isn't that the name of the game? If they are willing to pay more than anyone else, they likely would have done so regardless of when the bid was placed.
When I use that word i consider it as an action not as a derogatory term but that's what it was referred to in the first post so i was trying to stay on point... but i see what ya sayin.

Personally I think the impact is because some buyers believe it's unfair to place bids at a point when it is impossible or unfeasible for other bidders to counter the bid. And since being fair is what buyers expect, that fear can be eliminated with popcorn bidding. It may take a few minutes longer to end but i havent seen one that lasted any longer than about 20 minutes. I think its a way to fair it up for everyone, but maybe I'm wrong. I sure appreciate hearing the feedback though.
 

Cell

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When I use that word i consider it as an action not as a derogatory term but that's what it was referred to in the first post so i was trying to stay on point... but i see what ya sayin.

Personally I think the impact is because some buyers believe it's unfair to place bids at a point when it is impossible or unfeasible for other bidders to counter the bid. And since being fair is what buyers expect, that fear can be eliminated with popcorn bidding. It may take a few minutes longer to end but i havent seen one that lasted any longer than about 20 minutes. I think its a way to fair it up for everyone, but maybe I'm wrong. I sure appreciate hearing the feedback though.
I guess the counterpoint is that proxy bidding exists for this very reason. But there is indeed an advantage to being present at the end of an auction. It can also be a double-edged sword for the impulsive and/or competitive types though.
 

steveschuerger

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I’ve been in auctions with both ways of doing things. Greatly prefer a fixed end. Popcorn bidding kinda frustrates me to be honest and I sometimes give up when I see the price increases .
 

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