Reef crystals, confusing parameters and starting 2 part dosing

[jpark457]

I recently added more hard corals and have noticed some growth so wanted to see if I needed to start dosing for alk and Ca or if my water changes remained adequate. My last water change was 6 days ago and I measured today before and after the change to see where things were at.

Pre WC:
1.026 sg
pH 7.8
KH 6.7
Ca 480
Mg 1400

Post WC
1.026 sg
pH 8.1? Something between the colors of 8 and 8.2
KH 7.3
Ca 480

Sg measured w a refractometer, pH w API and rest w salifert.

I use reef crystals salt which claims Ca 455 and Mg 1345 at my Sg and doesn’t make a statement on alk at least on the package that I saw. I have had similar high numbers before when measuring Ca and Mg but haven’t had pH and alk this low and I’m kind of assuming that’s a result of consumption and that I should probably start supplementing at least alk.

My questions with all this are:
1. Any idea why Ca and Mg are higher than the specs from the salt manufacturer?
2. If I start dosing, my understanding is to correct to desired parameters then check 24-48h later and use a correction calc as dose. Should I just correct the alk as Ca seems fine?
3. I thought Ca and alk were kind of tied in consumption so do I dose for both after that?

Thanks!

 

[CoralB]

You are letting your alk go down low . I would dose it to try to keep it around 8.2 ish and that should bring down your mag witch is a little high in my opinion. I like my mag around 1350 or a little less . Can’t always go by what is written on the side of your container of salt as it can fluctuate impart by it not being mixed well and or coming from the manufacturer with different parameters . Always test and evaluate your parameters . for case in point you should test you alk and see how much your tank consumes per day and adjust or dose accordingly. Keeping your parameters as stable as you can and within correct parameter is key . Good luck !

 

[jpark457]

I tried dosing with BRS 2 part / liquid soda ash to correct for the low alk with dose based on their calculator. Will see what that does to the levels. Alk had dropped a little again after the WC but still Ca and Mg remained stable on the high side so didn’t do anything to them. If it corrects and I try to start dosing to keep it up do I dose Ca as the other part of 2 part dosing? My understanding is that I’m supposed to dose them equivalently if doing as an ongoing daily dose for consumption but haven’t doses before

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

What were your alk, Ca, and Mg prior to these recent tests? If your parameters have been stable since you added the corals/noticed increased growth, then I wouldn't dose anything yet but track things until you see a need.

 

[jpark457]

One day after the WC I was at:
1.026 sg
pH 8
KH 6.8
Ca 480
Mg 1400

I dosed the soda ash because pretty much every time I had tested before the latest round of coral added I was at

1.026 sg
pH 8.2
KH high 9s
Ca 480-500
Mg 1400

I did the dose calculated to correct to 8.5 thinking that it might be better to move up slower / not go crazy trying to hit my old standard parameters immediately on the first go but still get in to a better range. It had dropped 0.9 in a day which from what I read didn’t seem like a crazy consumption rate. I have a chalice the size of a large man’s open hand, a digi that’s somewhere between a mini colony and a large frag an assortment of LPS frags and small colonies and a few other SPS frags plus a bunch of softies for reference of what could be taking up alk. Everything seems ok / unharmed after I got home from a shift overnight and the digi if anything seems to have more little extensions of growth.

Going to crash because I have a fast turnaround before I go back in to work but will try to run another round of test tonight somewhere close to 24 after the last one and the dose.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

One day after the WC I was at:
1.026 sg
pH 8
KH 6.8
Ca 480
Mg 1400

I dosed the soda ash because pretty much every time I had tested before the latest round of coral added I was at

1.026 sg
pH 8.2
KH high 9s
Ca 480-500
Mg 1400

I did the dose calculated to correct to 8.5 thinking that it might be better to move up slower / not go crazy trying to hit my old standard parameters immediately on the first go but still get in to a better range. It had dropped 0.9 in a day which from what I read didn’t seem like a crazy consumption rate. I have a chalice the size of a large man’s open hand, a digi that’s somewhere between a mini colony and a large frag an assortment of LPS frags and small colonies and a few other SPS frags plus a bunch of softies for reference of what could be taking up alk. Everything seems ok / unharmed after I got home from a shift overnight and the digi if anything seems to have more little extensions of growth.

Going to crash because I have a fast turnaround before I go back in to work but will try to run another round of test tonight somewhere close to 24 after the last one and the dose.

Yeah, that is a pretty significant drop in alk. Thanks for the additional info

 

[jpark457]

Today I’m at:
pH 8.2
KH 8.3
Ca 450
Mg 1425

going to hold off adding anything else and will repeat again tomorrow. Todays measures are earlier in the day by several hours. Will repeat measure again tomorrow afternoon and see where I’m at to try to calculate daily dose (while still trending daily) and may be another correction to get KH around 9

how much Ca am I supposed to use? Is that still based off levels or a lot of things I read seem to say dose 1:1 w the alk but is that by volume or I would guess more likely amount of Ca and alk in solution?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Today I’m at:
pH 8.2
KH 8.3
Ca 450
Mg 1425

going to hold off adding anything else and will repeat again tomorrow. Todays measures are earlier in the day by several hours. Will repeat measure again tomorrow afternoon and see where I’m at to try to calculate daily dose (while still trending daily) and may be another correction to get KH around 9

how much Ca am I supposed to use? Is that still based off levels or a lot of things I read seem to say dose 1:1 w the alk but is that by volume or I would guess more likely amount of Ca and alk in solution?

I realize that "IDK" answers are not helpful, but idk, lol. I do know that my Red Sea Alk-Ca-Mg instructions have the specific amounts to add based on each parameter and say to add in a particular order...
Hope this helps

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

how much Ca am I supposed to use? Is that still based off levels or a lot of things I read seem to say dose 1:1 w the alk but is that by volume or I would guess more likely amount of Ca and alk in solution?

Depends, if course on what you are dosing, but if you are dosing a typical two part, most are best used 1:1 based on alk measurement, and only very slowly change the calcium part up or down based on long term trends in calcium.

Right now your values are perfect and I would not assume you need much dosing.

 

[jpark457]

Today at
pH 8.2
KH 7.7
Ca 450

So drop in KH of 0.6 in about 24H but Ca still stayed stable. I’m using the BRS 2 part starter set that came with a soda ash packet, Ca packet and Mg packet along with mixing jugs et. When I added the Alk correction it was 34 ml of the solution per their calculator estimating 28gallons water (34g tank less rock and stuff). Unless there’s advice against it I think I will again dose to 8.5 with whatever the calc spits out because it seemed reasonably on point last time.

I get the idea of trending this close until I fall in to something stable but my one hang up in understanding is still how Ca is supposed to be added / if it should be added if my number isnt really changing. I get that Mg is consumed slower and will need addition less / possibly not at all as I do decent sized water changes every 1-2 weeks and use reef crystals which is pretty high in Mg.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Just be sure not to raise (or lower) any of them too quickly. I know one person who schedules his dosing pumps to dose smaller amounts 12-24 times a day due to high alk uptake, rather than trying to make a larger correction once a day...

 

[jpark457]

Thanks for the advice. I have been thinking about getting a pump to dose assuming that the tank has matured in to needing it / would benefit

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Thanks for the advice. I have been thinking about getting a pump to dose assuming that the tank has matured in to needing it / would benefit

I'm not saying it's necessary, and a lot of people prefer to dose by hand; just wanted to point out that the more stable you can keep the system, the better.

 

[Tankkeepers]

I recently added more hard corals and have noticed some growth so wanted to see if I needed to start dosing for alk and Ca or if my water changes remained adequate. My last water change was 6 days ago and I measured today before and after the change to see where things were at.

Pre WC:
1.026 sg
pH 7.8
KH 6.7
Ca 480
Mg 1400

Post WC
1.026 sg
pH 8.1? Something between the colors of 8 and 8.2
KH 7.3
Ca 480

Sg measured w a refractometer, pH w API and rest w salifert.

I use reef crystals salt which claims Ca 455 and Mg 1345 at my Sg and doesn’t make a statement on alk at least on the package that I saw. I have had similar high numbers before when measuring Ca and Mg but haven’t had pH and alk this low and I’m kind of assuming that’s a result of consumption and that I should probably start supplementing at least alk.

My questions with all this are:
1. Any idea why Ca and Mg are higher than the specs from the salt manufacturer?
2. If I start dosing, my understanding is to correct to desired parameters then check 24-48h later and use a correction calc as dose. Should I just correct the alk as Ca seems fine?
3. I thought Ca and alk were kind of tied in consumption so do I dose for both after that?

Thanks!

Becouse io is not good about matching the specs it should be to what's actually in the bucket

In 10 years I couldn't tell you how many batches I had to throw out due to somthing way off

Worst one had copper in it

Most batches have alot of clay in them

Que my haters and personal attacks on me for saying io is crap


That's why I use Red Sea Coral pro each batch is tested and posted and in 2 years have all been pretty consistent

 

[homer1475]

Most batches have alot of clay in them

Still waiting on those facts to back up your claim IO has clay in it.

 

[jpark457]

this is what has shaken out over the last bit as I have tried to be on top of testing and figure out how to keep all stable. The tank seems to consume 6ml worth or BRS liquid soda ash 2 part solution daily and seemingly no appreciable Ca. I’m kind of still wondering if I should be adding some amount of Ca to match this although testing would seem to say no. There was a WC just before this chart and there will be one in the next day or so.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Becouse io is not good about matching the specs it should be to what's actually in the bucket

In 10 years I couldn't tell you how many batches I had to throw out due to somthing way off

Worst one had copper in it

Most batches have alot of clay in them

Que my haters and personal attacks on me for saying io is crap


That's why I use Red Sea Coral pro each batch is tested and posted and in 2 years have all been pretty consistent

There are no published specifications for IO. What specs are you referring to?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Que my haters and personal attacks on me for saying io is crap

Personal attacks are never permitted at REEF2REEF. Attacks on misinformation are encouraged.

It’s a fine opinion to express that you think IO is crap, but you are giving facts that do not appear to be true.

Normal IO has no clay in it. I also do not think you have evidence that Reef Crystals does (I also think it does not based on discussion with tech folks who know, but it was a long time ago).

All salt mixes have some copper. Why do you think you got a batch of IO with excessive levels?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

this is what has shaken out over the last bit as I have tried to be on top of testing and figure out how to keep all stable. The tank seems to consume 6ml worth or BRS liquid soda ash 2 part solution daily and seemingly no appreciable Ca. I’m kind of still wondering if I should be adding some amount of Ca to match this although testing would seem to say no. There was a WC just before this chart and there will be one in the next day or so.

On the contrary, your testing shows exactly what is expected for equal demand for calcium and alk. This is how rumors of unbalanced demand get started and run wild.

I didn’t see your tank volume, but let’s suppose it is 50 gallons. Higher volume would give even smaller expected calcium change.

6 mL of my diy recipe, as from BRS, boosts alk by ONLY 0.17 dKH per day. The balanced calcium demand is only about 1 ppm per day, which cannot be reliably detected in 20 days like you tried.

your calcium is bouncing around, but just looking at the first and last measurement, it dropped 30 ppm in 19 days.

Thus, you have no evidence of a lack of calcium demand.

 

[homer1475]

Took me a long time, and a long winded thread with randy to figure it out.


Trust Randy. Just dose in equal parts, you will not see a rise in calcium if dosing in equal parts.

I never understood it either. MY Calcium never dropped even though I was doing WC's and dosing a boat load of ALK. Started dosing in equal parts, and have not seen a decline or rise in calcium.

Hard to understand the science when our test kits are telling us something totally different.