Reef Moonshine Element Mixing?

Fishbone · Jan 25, 2023

I’d like to automate my daily Reef Moonshine elements through two dosers. I know certain elements can’t be combined without falling out of solution. Not sure which ones. I was thinking of mixing up similar element cocktails to what is in Tropic Marin A- and K+. See list below. I’m assuming if they can mix these elements together so should I, but I know that may not be the case. Would these elements be fine in solution together? Anything that is recommended not to mix in with the rest due to compatibility/mixing issues.

Solution 1
Bromine (RM)
Iodine (Sea Chem)
Molybdenum (RM)
Vanadium (RM)

Solution 2
Barium (RM)
Cobolt (RM)
Iron (RM)
Manganese(RM)
Nickel (RM)
Strontium (Brightwell)
Zinc (RM)

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 25, 2023

One of these I would not dose since it has no known biological role in any known organism (barium), but mixing the others carries a risk of changing the oxidation states as I describe in this thread from today:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/mixing-diy-manganese-and-molybdenum.962533/
This is a surprisingly complicated question, and is true of many trace metals.

Both of these metals can exist in a wide range of oxidation states. One should expect there to be potential for interaction between them that may alter the state of both of them, while still possibly remaining in solution. One also should expect many trace metals to react with O2 in the air.

What effect this may have on the suitability of dosing, I do not really know since I'm not sure what oxidation states will prevail.

I also expect most trace element companies who make mixtures are not aware of, or simply ignore such issues.

If you mix them and start to see a precipitate over time, that's obviously a problem. If not, the chemicals are likely Ok to dose.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 25, 2023

Strontium and zinc can certainly be mixed.

vetteguy53081 · Jan 25, 2023

Randy already clarified. There are steps in the program and none suggest mixing. There is a downloadable version of the method manual and see the various cautions mentioned with the use of bottles and mixing. As a safety after an ICP a couple of years ago showed high levels, I dose at 60% of program recommendations.

acesfull44 · Jan 25, 2023

So clearly Randy is an expert, and I am confident he is right. Here is an outline straight from the Moonshiners Handbook:

Mixing Elements and Handling
Under no circumstance pre-mix the elements with each other!
That would cause chemical reactions and oxidizing processes and the purpose of the dosing would not be achieved since elements would oxidize likely to unusable states of oxidation.
To keep a theoretical shelf life of many years if kept separate and not contaminated with each other, please use individual Syringes and don’t contaminate with each other or Tank water.
Ideally use the Syringes that come with the Reef Moonshiner Elements for each bottle and use for example Rubber bands to attach the Syringe, so they won’t get mixed up.
In case they got contaminated with each other or tank water, ….. buy them all new! Just kidding, the impact and contamination is not a deal breaker, but will affect the elements on the long run if done this way.
To be honest, even while not recommended, I personally use one and the same Syringe for all my daily dosages, however, never pour one remaining element in the syringe into another bottle and never touch the tank water with the Syringe to avoid bacterial contamination. I also mark the end of the Syringe with a Pen, so I know how much I need to pull the Syringe plunger out.
Store the elements at Room Temperature, no need for any Elements to be refrigerated.
Shelf life is theoretically for many years if unopened. After opening and first use, the approximate shelf life is about 2-3 years if not contaminated.
Compability