Refugium hinders coral growth?

[Nor'easter Reefer]

Daftness is fine just not sure I could take 2 hours of it :) I don't think that content is made for me.

That is heavy duty. Me personally I use my refugium for refuge, isolation if needed, and grow macro algae. Not to export nutrients. It may export a little but I am more interested in growing it for food for my Gold Lined Rabbitfish and Scopas tang. I recently added a Blue tang so will be interesting to see if it will get in on the action once it grows up more. It is super tiny now.

My Copperband and Milletseed Butterflies rush to it for worms and aiptasia. I'll grab out a handful and it doesn't last too long. Other fish eat it like spaghetti noodles.

I intended to do something similar to this but my macro melted on me and I grew hair algae. That said, my tank was really new back then. I wonder if I'll have better luck now that my tanks more mature? Also wonder if I should get my nutrients closer to where I want them before I get a macro or get a macro and see if it helps me along the way.

 

[vlangel]

I have a fuge on my mature system with macroalgae in both the fuge and display. Since the tank is coming on its 9th year, I hardly do any water changes anymore (I just dose AFR) and I have never had better coral growth. I do know that my display and fuge have sponges so perhaps that is helping. Also I passively add carbon.

This is not my first tank with macroalgae and I have always found it beneficial. So take this information and do what you will with it. Here are pics of my current tank.

 

[twentyleagues]

I intended to do something similar to this but my macro melted on me and I grew hair algae. That said, my tank was really new back then. I wonder if I'll have better luck now that my tanks more mature? Also wonder if I should get my nutrients closer to where I want them before I get a macro or get a macro and see if it helps me along the way.

Current system I started my macro right after the tank cycled. I'm going to do that again on the 180. Had no issues growing the macros and hardly any ugly phase and I used dry rock and bottled bacteria. I dont like chaeto I use caulerpas usually the blade or prolifera but I could not find that locally when I started this tank so I used mostly feather and bubble with some dragons breath mixed in. I will probably bite the bullet and order what I want online this time. I want the fuge to do work, protect a population of pods and look nice. I have done it in the past and it worked out great I had a 2'x2' field of Caulerpa Prolifera with some other textures and colors mixed in.

 

[jonelder68]

Current system I started my macro right after the tank cycled. I'm going to do that again on the 180. Had no issues growing the macros and hardly any ugly phase and I used dry rock and bottled bacteria. I dont like chaeto I use caulerpas usually the blade or prolifera but I could not find that locally when I started this tank so I used mostly feather and bubble with some dragons breath mixed in. I will probably bite the bullet and order what I want online this time. I want the fuge to do work, protect a population of pods and look nice. I have done it in the past and it worked out great I had a 2'x2' field of Caulerpa Prolifera with some other textures and colors mixed in.

Exact same as I’ve done but with Pom Pom and remote refugium is growing whatever came on it from TBS live rock. I may have over done the refugium size though as my nutrients are zero constantly. Honestly it’s probably some but the macros use it all up after every feeding. My ugliest were about 2-3 weeks and done. Going to start dosing ammonium and phosphate though. Which I rather have to dose vs being high and having to balance removal constantly.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

I guess it would be hard to determine the degree of allelopathic impact that algae has in a reef tank. First and foremost, in many tanks, algae might not even be the biggest offender. Secondly, different corals react differently (if they even react at all) to various compounds released by algae or other corals.

I once saw a really nice acro colony that had grape caulerpa wrapped all around its base and through many of its branches, and it seemed to be growing fine.

I’ve seen tanks with refugiums that did amazingly well, and I’ve seen tanks with refugiums that did poorly. Do we know for sure that the refugiums were either the cause of success or the cause of failure? So many other variables involved it would require some actual scientific testing to know for sure.

Here’s was I do know about reef tanks after having done this for a while:

Reefing is like parenting. It’s just years and years of constantly trading one issue or problem for another, and just when you think you have it figured out, you’re rudely reminded that you don’t. And if you do happen to hit that patch of perfection, soak it up and enjoy it…because it’s temporary. But if you just step back and don’t try too hard to control and create an outcome, things typically turn out just fine.

 

[Aquarist76]

ridiculous

must be caluerpa or something…
which is a macro i would never add

this macro will never affect your reef negatively

Nice!!!

The best my coral ever looked was when I had a caluerpa fuge. LOL. So much so I've often thought of going back to it. Never had much luck with chaeto. Problem with caluerpa is if it gets into the main tank.

 

[Nor'easter Reefer]

Nice!!!

The best my coral ever looked was when I had a caluerpa fuge. LOL. So much so I've often thought of going back to it. Never had much luck with chaeto. Problem with caluerpa is if it gets into the main tank.

From what i've heard it's not if, it's when

 

[Aquarist76]

From what i've heard it's not if, it's when

Yup, pretty much. LOL. Luckily my tangs liked it so it never got too bad.

 

[Reef Puncher]

I’m surprised with at least one thing I heard Salem claim that is misleading (e.g., at about 2:01:30 he says GAC doesn’t impact trace elements as much as organics because of the pore size.) Pore size is not the explanation, and would work in the opposite way since organics are larger than trace elements.

But that said, I do agree that exporting organics by water change, skimming, GAC, and other organic binders can be very useful and might possibly impact disease as he suggests.

Folks also should realize that algae are not the only and maybe not even the primary source of doc in some reef tanks. I’ve not seen anyone actually quantify typical reef tank sources, although some folks may have.

if high DOC is bad, why does fauna marin sell carbon to dose? or some people dose vinegar. is carbon in a system good or bad? its kind of confusing to me.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I’m surprised with at least one thing I heard Salem claim that is misleading

I am just shocked that you are watching these videos... What did you do with Randy, and who is posting on his behalf?

 

[Reef Builders]

I’m surprised with at least one thing I heard Salem claim that is misleading (e.g., at about 2:01:30 he says GAC doesn’t impact trace elements as much as organics because of the pore size.) Pore size is not the explanation, and would work in the opposite way since organics are larger than trace elements.

But that said, I do agree that exporting organics by water change, skimming, GAC, and other organic binders can be very useful and might possibly impact disease as he suggests.

Folks also should realize that algae are not the only and maybe not even the primary source of doc in some reef tanks. I’ve not seen anyone actually quantify typical reef tank sources, although some folks may have.

I was referring to CAC being a preferable method compared to GAC to export DOC due to pore size. CAC tends to have larger pores than GAC which allows

A) better adsorption of larger organic compounds

B) has less surface polarity so lower chance of ion attraction

C) it’s also designed for catalytic degradation so it can chemically break down DOC


In my mind it’s about macroporous vs mesoporous absorption at least based on the waste water papers I’ve read. Thus I would assume that CAC would have less of an impact on traces and more of an impact on DOC compared to GAC.

 

[bubbgee]

I'll have to meander over to your build thread and see what you got going on. As im trying to figure out how I want to move forward with my system right now and could use some inspiration.

As far as podcasts go, I just started listening to some recently. There's a lot of people with a log of opinions that they think are facts lol that said, I tend to take things with a grain of salt for the most part

Check out @VintageReefer's build. He's got a DIY algae reactor which is the works the same as algar in a refugium.

 

[Huskereef]

I was referring to CAC being a preferable method compared to GAC to export DOC due to pore size. CAC tends to have larger pores than GAC which allows

A) better adsorption of larger organic compounds

B) has less surface polarity so lower chance of ion attraction

C) it’s also designed for catalytic degradation so it can chemically break down DOC


In my mind it’s about macroporous vs mesoporous absorption at least based on the waste water papers I’ve read. Thus I would assume that CAC would have less of an impact on traces and more of an impact on DOC compared to GAC.

Salem, what does the C in CAC mean? What carbon or specific activated carbon would you recommend to achieve lowering of DOC.

 

[Nor'easter Reefer]

Salem, what does the C in CAC mean? What carbon or specific activated carbon would you recommend to achieve lowering of DOC.

Colloidal I think

 

[Nor'easter Reefer]

Check out @VintageReefer's build. He's got a DIY algae reactor which is the works the same as algar in a refugium.

That would be pretty sweet too!

 

[Huskereef]

Colloidal I think

Is colloidal what is mainly sold these days? Maybe a dumb question, I have never heard of that term.

 

[Nor'easter Reefer]

Is colloidal what is mainly sold these days? Maybe a dumb question, I have never heard of that term.

Im fairly confident most people are using GAC over CAC but I may be very wrong. Im kinda talking about something I barely understand haha

 

[Huskereef]

Im fairly confident most people are using GAC over CAC but I may be very wrong. Im kinda talking about something I barely understand haha

Hey hopefully we both learn something then. Wondering if BRS ROX 0.8 is a good example of what Salem is mentioning.

 

[Reef Builders]

Salem, what does the C in CAC mean? What carbon or specific activated carbon would you recommend to achieve lowering of DOC.

Catalytic

Most use GAC

 

[Nor'easter Reefer]

Catalytic

Hey hopefully we both learn something then. Wondering if BRS ROX 0.8 is a good example of what Salem is mentioning.

Turns out I was wrong haha