Return Re-plumbing

[gonzo256]

I'm in the planning process of re-plumbing my return line for my 240G DT. What I have now is a Vecta L1 going through 1 inch reinforced flex tubing, an Apex 1 inch flow meter, to a 1 inch bulkhead. The reason why i'm redoing this is after the bulkhead it reduces to 3/4inch pipe, and then a 3/4 loc-line splitter to two loc=line nozzles. The 3/4 inch lines are adding way to much head pressure for the L1. So what I want to do is replace the 3/4 inch to 1 inch Pvc to a 3/4inch wye to 3/4 inch loc-line for each side. I have the pieces to make all of that work.

My question is around the flex tube to the bulkhead. Can I use a standard 1 inch straight barb and a couple of hose clamps? Or do I have to use a 90 degree elbow barb? I'd like to do with the straight barb to reduce as much head pressure as possible.

 

[nautical_nathaniel]

I think you could try either and see which works best for your specific application, however, someone in the #reefsquad may have a better answer. Wish I could help more!

 

[jsker]

I'm in the planning process of re-plumbing my return line for my 240G DT. What I have now is a Vecta L1 going through 1 inch reinforced flex tubing, an Apex 1 inch flow meter, to a 1 inch bulkhead. The reason why i'm redoing this is after the bulkhead it reduces to 3/4inch pipe, and then a 3/4 loc-line splitter to two loc=line nozzles. The 3/4 inch lines are adding way to much head pressure for the L1. So what I want to do is replace the 3/4 inch to 1 inch Pvc to a 3/4inch wye to 3/4 inch loc-line for each side. I have the pieces to make all of that work.

My question is around the flex tube to the bulkhead. Can I use a standard 1 inch straight barb and a couple of hose clamps? Or do I have to use a 90 degree elbow barb? I'd like to do with the straight barb to reduce as much head pressure as possible.

I do not see any reason why not.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I apologize, but I'm confused over the use of barbs. Not sure why you are using barbs. If I understand the problem correctly, I'd come through the one inch bulkhead to a one inch - 3/4 tee. I would then send these two 3/4 pipes/flex line where you want them and attach the loc-line. I tee'd my return with two exit points on either side....with wye loc line. Here's the return line coming up the back of the tank to a tee (elbow first):

Tee'd off to four wye loc line returns:

And yes, staying 1 inch up to a wye or tee will help in the return.

 

[gonzo256]

Re-reading my post, I can totally see the confusion. My question is really before the bulk head. Everything between the return and bulk head is flex tubing. So what I wanted to know is what are the possible down sides to using a straight barb between the flex tubing and the bulk head. Keeping in mind the barb and the bulkhead will be vertical.

Edit: my only concern is around gravity and pressure possibly overwhelming the barb fitting to the flex tube.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I'm with you now @gonzo256 ......I think!

Without calculations, I'm saying that the difference between using an elbow barb versus a straight barb is probably minimal. The biggest killer of flow is friction. The frictional loss from the additional tubing you would need to make the connection to the straight barb would be about the same loss of simply using an elbow (with now less tubing). So I'd guess it's about a wash, and if anything, we are talking about 1 elbow. So I say go with whatever one you wish to use. And I'd be using the plastic clamps on that tubing....not metal. Here's an example:

 

[gonzo256]

Thanks! I have a hand full of the plastic hose clamps from another build. This setup is only going to be mildly temporary (6-12 months), I'm working on a custom Triton method focused sump for main display tank, which will require yet another replumb of the return.

I'm with you now @gonzo256 ......I think!

Without calculations, I'm saying that the difference between using an elbow barb versus a straight barb is probably minimal. The biggest killer of flow is friction. The frictional loss from the additional tubing you would need to make the connection to the straight barb would be about the same loss of simply using an elbow (with now less tubing). So I'd guess it's about a wash, and if anything, we are talking about 1 elbow. So I say go with whatever one you wish to use. And I'd be using the plastic clamps on that tubing....not metal. Here's an example:

 

[ca1ore]

Even 1" plumbing will present significant friction pressure. Vectras are really poor at handling pressure, ideally you'd want to maintain native size out of the pump. When I upsized to 1 1/2" for my external PW200 (a far more powerful pump against pressure) I gained an additional 50% in net flow.

 

[gonzo256]

I would love to step up to 1 1/2 inch but I’m limited to what the bulkhead can handle. As part of another thread I learned about the Royal Exclusiv Red Dragon pumps. Which I will likely add after my tank stabilizes to Triton.

 

[DCR]

I am just a lurker that has been using this site for planning a future build, but as a career engineer I felt compelled to sign-up and warn you that there is no way you will get anywhere close to the 10X flow Triton recommnends on a 240 gallon tank with 1" pipe - even with a Red Dragon. The frictional losses will be extreme at that velocity (30 ft per second). I think you will likely be limited to somehting less than 1000 gph. I would have to run the calculation but I would expect that you would need a pump with over 50 ft of head at 2400 gph to achieve that much flow in 1" piping. You need 1-1/2" or even 2" pipe for that much flow.

 

[gonzo256]

I'd love to go to larger return line, but I'm limited by the size of the hole for the bulkhead, and drilling that out to something larger is now probably now impossible.

However, there are two drain lines each with either 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inch bulk heads, I could make one of those drain lines the return, and turn the existing return to a drain.

I am just a lurker that has been using this site for planning a future build, but as a career engineer I felt compelled to sign-up and warn you that there is no way you will get anywhere close to the 10X flow Triton recommnends on a 240 gallon tank with 1" pipe - even with a Red Dragon. The frictional losses will be extreme at that velocity (30 ft per second). I think you will likely be limited to somehting less than 1000 gph. I would have to run the calculation but I would expect that you would need a pump with over 50 ft of head at 2400 gph to achieve that much flow in 1" piping. You need 1-1/2" or even 2" pipe for that much flow.

 

[DCR]

I'd love to go to larger return line, but I'm limited by the size of the hole for the bulkhead, and drilling that out to something larger is now probably now impossible.

However, there are two drain lines each with either 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inch bulk heads, I could make one of those drain lines the return, and turn the existing return to a drain.

I would want to keep at least two drains. You could help yourself by running the larger return line (1-1/2") and then reducing down right at the return bulkhead. You would not want to have much of anything else attached to the bulk head on the inside of the tank like Loc-Line. You won't get 2400 gph, but it will be much more than with just 1". Personally, I really question the Triton 10X recommendation, but that is another topic. I also think most reefers overestimate how much return flow they actually have. I am not sure I would change anything you are doing. I just did not want you to be disappointed with the flow after spending $1000+ on a pump. If you did not install a meter, you probably would never know. Good luck with on your 240G. Should be a really nice system.

 

[gonzo256]

I have had this system up and running almost a year and half. It was all custom, however the place that made it for me I question some of their design choices (they are out of business now). Knowing what I know now, I would have asked for things to be done differently.

After all this discussion.

I will end moving things around, I'll still have two drains, one 1" and one 1 1/2" and steal the other 1 1/2" bulkhead for the return. The return line will be a two inch schedule 80, from the top of the sump to a 2" flow monitor and then to one of the bulkheads. Coming off the pump will be whatever flex tubing will fit the pump that's there and a reducing fitting and barb to get it hard PVC.

I would want to keep at least two drains. You could help yourself by running the larger return line (1-1/2") and then reducing down right at the return bulkhead. You would not want to have much of anything else attached to the bulk head on the inside of the tank like Loc-Line. You won't get 2400 gph, but it will be much more than with just 1". Personally, I really question the Triton 10X recommendation, but that is another topic. I also think most reefers overestimate how much return flow they actually have. I am not sure I would change anything you are doing. I just did not want you to be disappointed with the flow after spending $1000+ on a pump. If you did not install a meter, you probably would never know. Good luck with on your 240G. Should be a really nice system.