RIP CLEAN has begun….

[BanjoBandito]

Wonderful pics I’m proud to have this post as the first link in the best of the best thread I hijacked. You did real tank surgery+ dentistry. Add brand new light acclimation hurdle cleared the same day rip clean was finished…a double challenge make sure those lights dont sunburn~ be under your endpoint desired max PAR levels not at them already. For sure the feeding you’re doing well plus the crisp new spectrum will bring corals back fast.

a third and hidden benefit of the r clean is no chemical souping at all, thats crazy clean water. Instead of half-dying targets rotting in the tank, it’s protein slicks and vitamin trails in the water due to great feeding. Corals will be even more extended by Wednesday for sure, a new bell curve has been forced on the tank its on the upside now.


agreed params will rebound in unique ways tank to tank, it’s why the intercepting water changes help to guide things towards new saltwater levels as dosing if any is fine tuned.


this all really is like reef tank exercise there’s a benefit to the six month sustained look back vs week one

it gets flushed and worked with feed and cpr water changes vs stagnancy. Coral nutrition and photosynthesis improved with the lights and feed base, the reef takes on a fringing reef high energy high calcified mass mode vs the eutrophic plant dominant mode which is reef atrophy and beckons disease.

Thank you again for the support. I used your article from CORALS as a bible for my jar reef when it was up and running and it did pretty dang good. Being a FOWLR guy and inching into reefs I was not prepared for the nutrient and balance early on...this is giving this tank a second life and so far so good.

 

[BanjoBandito]

How did you beat your dinos?

I tried everything...at first it was just "there" but eventually after a vacation I came back to FULL ON PLAGUE. I tried Dr. Tim's method, blackouts, DINO X, H202 dosing...almost everything you read about I did. And it would work...for awhile. Eventually I became convinced they were in my sandbed and the sudden loss of copepods early on was a tell tale sign that something was really really wrong. I blame it on not dipping corals from a WWC sale (I was dumb, the directions said not to and I believed them). I think that's where it all started...in the end, I did a massive round of DINO X (about a month) and lost some livestock. It did subside but I could see it creeping back on dead coral fragments. At that point I knew this tank had to be broken down and cleaned head to toe. I believe rinsing the sandbed was the dagger. I know that's outrageous, but the proof will be in the pudding. I kept some rocks that didn't have "sludge" and simply toothbrushed them clean, followed by a quick RODI FW dip to rinse, preserving coralline on them, any rock that didn't have coral to stuck to unstick, I H202 dipped, along with some corals that had that smelly sludge. My AIO back half STUNK like that rotting dino stuff. I still believe dinos kept getting out of control due to OVER filtering. We talk a lot about biomes and how certain organisms need time to develop, and I believe I got that out of whack from over skimming/filtering. I was obsessive about low nutrients and I think it did more harm than good. Under a microscope my sand bed had all sorts of evil creepy crawlies in it. So i do think most of my issues were from the sandbed not being addressed. I hope that helps. It's not really a "DO THIS TO CURE THIS" post, as dinos are just one of those things...but they'll wreck your tank and steal your zest for reefing real quick. If I didn't do something drastic, it was over for me.

 

[BanjoBandito]

Phosphates are now in a "normal range", test is showing .05 today. Again nitrates are low, .5. Continuing to spot feed corals. Got zoas opening up I haven't seen in weeks (scrambled eggs, poochsters)....acans look like fluffy doughnuts. So far so good.

 

[brandon429]

Banjo thank you so much for the documentation it’s gold, just gold. This whole process is so grossly against the rules the only way we can gain trust for repeats is these detailed follow ups. I still support every method you used prior for dinos, rip cleans only help the small tanks cheat to win…big tanks still need studies on param balancing, dosers that may work and dinox has many many positive reports too.



we need non rip clean studies right alongside the rips so a well-rounded option set emerges


Seeing what dinos can do to large tanks and how the fixes for them are not patterned but seem to be lucked upon makes me think I’ll just stay with my little vase reef and watch all the cool fish swim about by proxy from y’alls systems lol

I wish I could own just one clownfish, just one. but that would mean upsizing beyond one gallon and that’s too big, too much work nope I’m spoiled.

this was a devastating loss. Linked just to show how we deal in opposites: everything you did above was export, removal of bacteria and target complexed together while the good bacteria stayed adhered to the rocks and we never even discussed adding bottled bacteria. Whatever his dosing method was for dinos was a souping effect, an additions vs removal outcome

Complete Tank Crash

So my tank was running fairly well and then I was forced to move. Went to a smaller tank (~30AIO). First it was vermetids, then a massive plague of dinos. Got them under control once and then they came back in force. Tried Elegant Reefs dino/cyano method to the line and was greeted with the...

www.reef2reef.com

rip cleans aren’t helpful for giant tanks but that one isn’t giant. Pretty much nobody with any appreciable gallons will agree to a rip clean due to safety concerns, not the work. They think the rip clean is destabilizing because large tankers are trained to handle every action in careful, metered sections. A rip clean is still needed for the fresh start and when done completely, rinsed to the bone sand like you did, a clouding can never occur. I have never seen a failed rip clean, not one. A rip might not reduce all dinos in one pass but they save tanks like a CPR method, exactly like resuscitation compressions but ours is wave crashing export. Reefs are designed to handle that.


not all dosing runs in large tanks produce losses. Am simply relaying the scale of possible outcomes when skipping rip cleans, a bacterial bloom cannot happen after a rip clean as we removed all there was to spare and added none back in.

 

[BanjoBandito]

UPDATE: Phos numbers have settled in around .1 and nitrates are around 5, which is what is was prior in the "good times". No cycle or cycling issues, tank appears to be fully cycled, no issues there. Sand is still sparking white, seeing a small amount of diatoms on the snails, and on some of the rocks. been brushing that off daily but not being super crazy about it. Corals look good, even the grumpy zoas that hadn't opened in months are beginning to open again. Blastos have made real progress in a week to 10 days. I think they are going to make it!

 

[BanjoBandito]

UPDATE for anyone listening:

It's been about 2-3 weeks since the RIP clean. Sand is going through a diatom bloom. Does not appear major. No issues with the cycle. All corals are BETTER than they were prior. No issues with livestock. My nutrient levels are low. After the first couple days of higher numbers (.1-.2) for phosphates I'm having trouble keeping them up. Been showing steady at .02-.04, been feeding coral daily. I am a known over feeder for the record. So whatever nutrient/balance issue I had appears to be gone. The coralline "problem" doesn't appear to be going away with this tank, I put a small frag rack in about a week ago and it's starting to show coralline growth. Someone suggested I buy the Tunze magnet scraper, and whoever said that, thank you. It's great for the bend/bow in my tank. Works like a charm. Honestly this tank has been pretty "boring" in terms of numbers and upkeep the last 2 weeks. I'll try to check back in if there's any major issues that come up. What a ride. I've "unclenched" on this nano. I also bought a fungia plate. It looks great. lol.

 

[brandon429]

Very helpful updates! You could sell scrapings of that coralline to seed other tanks as a particularly strong strain for sure

 

[BanjoBandito]

The coralline gives me hope that this tank is hitting it's stride finally. I'm trying to coax some GSP onto the overflow wall. I'll try and update once and awhile just to keep some tabs on it and what the RIP CLEAN got me, where it got me, etc. The low low nutrient numbers threw me off a bit, I was so used to just battling numbers and eventually just let it run in the name of "consistency", but obviously those prior numbers were a sign of something going on...We'll see. Positive outlook.

 

[BanjoBandito]

UPDATE:

short update, tank has been pretty low nutrients to date. So it’s not all “great news”. I reached out to Brandon about it this weekend, as I spotted DINOS on my sand! I was crushed. I was (gently) reminded that I was not to be relaxed after the rip clean and to be diligent. So after a day of moping, I rolled up my sleeves and sucked every bit of it out of the tank and off the sand and got to work. It’s been 48-72 hours and it’s still clear. I’ve begun dosing silicates. I still believe my biome is off. I haven’t lost a coral and most are happy-ish. Via sloppy reefing my fav. acan got stung by one of my hammers. So I dipped and moved. Hoping he heals up. I truly believe my original issues were from trying to “gas pedal” this reef tank. We’ll see how it goes. Hoping the small cell amph. Doesn’t come back and have not seen the ostreopsis strain that wrecked it prior. Fingers crossed. Progress not perfection!

 

[BanjoBandito]

UPDATE/UPDATE: I'll post a pic here but my tank is AWESOME. The dinos kinda came by a little bit and I obviously panicked. I dosed silicates for a week post noticing it and they just disappeared. I'm now happy to report my tank is gorgeous. So while the RIP CLEAN took a bit to swing back, it absolutely got my tank back to rock solid. Regular readings of .09 on Phos, and 10 nitrates. Everything is growing again, and it's starting to look killer. Very excited. Thanks to everyone that took this ride. Big shout out to Brandon. I'm a believer.

I'm now running one of the most bare bones filtration setups that is basically a UV and a ball of filter floss. I am starting to think that by running GFO in an effort to keep my phosphates in check I was stripping out the silicates which was preventing diatoms and the like from getting a foothold. If the tank keeps going like this, I'll need a new tank by spring. That's a good problem!

 

[BanjoBandito]