RODI Filter Upgrade to Help

[kboogie]

I’d personally recommend going through BRS or Buckeye hydro for these parts for several reasons:

I agree.

@kboogie If you are expert enough to spec your own system then maybe this route makes sense. But if the experience level is not there IMO save this request for your favorite RODI vendor or LFS. If you really want to shop Amazon, then find a good vendor on Amazon – simple!

If it helps, RODI systems cost close to $0 in the long run. For example, $350 / 10 years = $0.09/day...my unit is around 20 years old. Even though rodi gear seems like a lot of $ in the moment, pinching pennies up front doesn't net you much. For this reason, I'd pick a vendor and get what they say you need. That way you're done.

But if saving money up front is important for specific reasons (eg. cash flow) then IMO you'd be better off buying a used system and combining it with yours...but then we're back at the expertise question and whether that's the best route.

(There is no rule that says you have to be an rodi expert AND a reef tank expert – either one could be a full time job by itself! )

Thank you for the suggestion. It is important to note I already have a 6 Stage RODI unit. I’m trying to upgrade that unit by adding a second membrane and a booster pump.

 

[kboogie]

I also think I might want to go with 150 GPD membranes to get down below 1 gallon per minute to ensure the other items beyond the membrane have enough contact time.

Sorry, long day.. I’ll have to check the video out!

I decided to actually bother to to dig around for something resembling a legible flow chart for poly RO line, with little success… (lots of metric measurements)

So, please forgive the use of AI here to organize the pertinent data into a legible comparison!

As you can see, the flow rates you’re targeting are going to require a bit of consideration in the plumbing department… probably 3/8” for everything up to the RO membranes at 300GPD… maybe 1/2” for the long run to the tanks…

This is really good and illuminates the point you are making.

At a minimum I should increase the diameter of the lines going into the unit and the lines coming out of the unit.

The laws of fluid dynamics strike again!

 

[kboogie]

We've been designing/building/operating/selling RO and RODI systems for 26 years, so we've learned a thing or two. www.buckeyehydro.com

If you have a specific question I'll try to help.

Russ

I would like to throw a question your way. I am wondering your thoughts on the AquaticLife Smart Buddie. It feels like a very good choice because I can't build a similar system for anything close to the price. The Aquatec 8800 costs the same as the Smart Buddie and an Aquatec purchase leaves me having to buy a flush kit and other items.

 

[Buckeye Hydro Verified Sponsor]

I would like to throw a question your way. I am wondering your thoughts on the AquaticLife Smart Buddie. It feels like a very good choice because I can't build a similar system for anything close to the price. The Aquatec 8800 costs the same as the Smart Buddie and an Aquatec purchase leaves me having to buy a flush kit and other items.

I'm not a fan, so we've never carried this product. It takes a number of system components and hides them inside a case. I want easy access to these parts. It comes with a fixed flow restrictor - that likely is not a good match for your membrane. Again... I want easy access to that flow restrictor. Has an unspecified (presumably imported) pump. I prefer a genuine Aquatec. Includes a low pressure switch - an un-needed component for this style of pump. It very well may be cheaper. Well, you can always find "cheaper," but for me, this is not the important thing driving my selection.

 

[kboogie]

I would like to throw a question your way. I am wondering your thoughts on the AquaticLife Smart Buddie. It feels like a very good choice because I can't build a similar system for anything close to the price. The Aquatec 8800 costs the same as the Smart Buddie and an Aquatec purchase leaves me having to buy a flush kit and other items.

I'm not a fan, so we've never carried this product. It takes a number of system components and hides them inside a case. I want easy access to these parts. It comes with a fixed flow restrictor - that likely is not a good match for your membrane. Again... I want easy access to that flow restrictor. Has an unspecified (presumably imported) pump. I prefer a genuine Aquatec. Includes a low pressure switch - an un-needed component for this style of pump. It very well may be cheaper. Well, you can always find "cheaper," but for me, this is not the important thing driving my selection.

Good information. Thank you.

 

[kboogie]

I completed my upgrade. I added the second membrane in series and added a AquaticLife Smart Buddies 200GPD booster system. I went with the Smart Buddie because the reviews were good and it had a short delivery time compared to the other units.

I ran the second membrane with a 100GPD membrane for a few days while I waited for the booster pump. My input pressure is 64 PSI, so I figured it should be OK, not great, but OK. My TDS coming out of the membrane went up from 6 to 7. My main membrane is old and needs to be replaced. I did see noticable increase in flow, but didn't measure because it wasn't impressive.

The Smart Buddie arrived last night, so I added it and replaced the membranes with 200GPD membranes. My input pressure while the valve is closed and the pump is running get up to about 84 PSI before the auto shut off kicks in. When running, the pressure is 72 PSI. I was surprised that my TDS out of the membranes was still 6 to 7. I am now getting impressive flow. I did a test, and it takes an average 4:50 to fill a one-gallon jug (12 gallons an hour) and this is waiting a few minutes for the initial purge, so it is not assisted by excess pressure build-up.

Overall I'm satisfied. I do wish I could increase the operating pressure to 80+ PSI, as I feel that would drop my output TDS and get me over 300GPD.

 

[UncommonSense]

I completed my upgrade. I added the second membrane in series and added a AquaticLife Smart Buddies 200GPD booster system. I went with the Smart Buddie because the reviews were good and it had a short delivery time compared to the other units.

I ran the second membrane with a 100GPD membrane for a few days while I waited for the booster pump. My input pressure is 64 PSI, so I figured it should be OK, not great, but OK. My TDS coming out of the membrane went up from 6 to 7. My main membrane is old and needs to be replaced. I did see noticable increase in flow, but didn't measure because it wasn't impressive.

The Smart Buddie arrived last night, so I added it and replaced the membranes with 200GPD membranes. My input pressure while the valve is closed and the pump is running get up to about 84 PSI before the auto shut off kicks in. When running, the pressure is 72 PSI. I was surprised that my TDS out of the membranes was still 6 to 7. I am now getting impressive flow. I did a test, and it takes an average 4:50 to fill a one-gallon jug (12 gallons an hour) and this is waiting a few minutes for the initial purge, so it is not assisted by excess pressure build-up.

Overall I'm satisfied. I do wish I could increase the operating pressure to 80+ PSI, as I feel that would drop my output TDS and get me over 300GPD.

Hmm… I don’t know if the ASO switch, or pump itself is pressure adjustable with the Smart buddy…

I suppose it’s not too late to order an Aquatec?

 

[kboogie]

I completed my upgrade. I added the second membrane in series and added a AquaticLife Smart Buddies 200GPD booster system. I went with the Smart Buddie because the reviews were good and it had a short delivery time compared to the other units.

I ran the second membrane with a 100GPD membrane for a few days while I waited for the booster pump. My input pressure is 64 PSI, so I figured it should be OK, not great, but OK. My TDS coming out of the membrane went up from 6 to 7. My main membrane is old and needs to be replaced. I did see noticable increase in flow, but didn't measure because it wasn't impressive.

The Smart Buddie arrived last night, so I added it and replaced the membranes with 200GPD membranes. My input pressure while the valve is closed and the pump is running get up to about 84 PSI before the auto shut off kicks in. When running, the pressure is 72 PSI. I was surprised that my TDS out of the membranes was still 6 to 7. I am now getting impressive flow. I did a test, and it takes an average 4:50 to fill a one-gallon jug (12 gallons an hour) and this is waiting a few minutes for the initial purge, so it is not assisted by excess pressure build-up.

Overall I'm satisfied. I do wish I could increase the operating pressure to 80+ PSI, as I feel that would drop my output TDS and get me over 300GPD.

Hmm… I don’t know if the ASO switch, or pump itself is pressure adjustable with the Smart buddy…

I suppose it’s not too late to order an Aquatec?

Kinda too late.

I think you are saying you agree that more pressure would be a good thing.

 

[UncommonSense]

Kinda too late.

I think you are saying you agree that more pressure would be a good thing.

I was thinking from the perspective of ordering the Aquatec, running the RO buddy until it arrives, then returning the RO buddy!

And yes, more pressure is better; up to the safe working limit of the associated housings, tubing, and fittings! (~90PSI)

 

[kboogie]

Kinda too late.

I think you are saying you agree that more pressure would be a good thing.

I was thinking from the perspective of ordering the Aquatec, running the RO buddy until it arrives, then returning the RO buddy!

And yes, more pressure is better; up to the safe working limit of the associated housings, tubing, and fittings! (~90PSI)

That’s what I thought. I’ll look into that.

 

[UncommonSense]

That’s what I thought. I’ll look into that.

I’d look at the 3/8” push connect Aquatec, vs. the 1/4”… (higher flow rates)

The Aquatec required a 24V AC power supply, so you don’t want to get it as a pump only!

The Aquatec also requires an Automatic ShutOff switch (ASO switch), which turns it off when your product water line pressure is >40PSI!

— Basically, get it as a kit with included power supply and ASO switch!

— also, it requires a sediment prefilter if installed prior to any RODI system prefilters… best-practice is installing it in-line post carbon, pre RO membranes (this lets your RODI system sediment filter serve as your booster pump prefilter!)

 

[kboogie]

That’s what I thought. I’ll look into that.

I’d look at the 3/8” push connect Aquatec, vs. the 1/4”… (higher flow rates)

The Aquatec required a 24V AC power supply, so you don’t want to get it as a pump only!

The Aquatec also requires an Automatic ShutOff switch (ASO switch), which turns it off when your product water line pressure is >40PSI!

— Basically, get it as a kit with included power supply and ASO switch!

— also, it requires a sediment prefilter if installed prior to any RODI system prefilters… best-practice is installing it in-line post carbon, pre RO membranes (this lets your RODI system sediment filter serve as your booster pump prefilter!)

All good suggestions.

For the 3/8” upgrade, is that everywhere or what I’ll refer to as input into the system and output of the system. That would be the line from the facet into the RO sediment filter, the line from the carbon block into the booster, the line from the booster into the membrane, and the line from the output of the DI which is basically the final output? This leaves the lines in between each stage as the original 1/4”.

 

[UncommonSense]

All good suggestions.

For the 3/8” upgrade, is that everywhere or what I’ll refer to as input into the system and output of the system. That would be the line from the facet into the RO sediment filter, the line from the carbon block into the booster, the line from the booster into the membrane, and the line from the output of the DI which is basically the final output? This leaves the lines in between each stage as the original 1/4”.

Hmm… given that you’re already pushing the limits of 1/4” (per the above comparison of frictional loss per-GPM) on the “supply” side of the system at 72PSI, I think you’re going to start hitting a proverbial wall with product water output rate without converting most of the system to 3/8”…

— on a BRS RODI, the sediment and carbon filtration stages are interconnected by 1/4” NPT “nipple” fittings… these are measured by ID, so they are not points of restriction and can be ignored…

— the sediment and carbon housings have a 1/4” female NPT inlet and outlet at each end of the housing chain, so switching from a 1/4” push connect to a 3/8” push connect fitting on each end should be easy…

— the ASO for the city water supply might be a bit of a challenge… I’ve never looked for one in 3/8”… I suppose you could run two 1/4” units in parallel to reach your target flow rate if necessary!

— the RO membranes are likewise a challenge, as the housings are only 1/8” NPT… you can switch to a different universal housing with 1/4” NPT inlet threads, or use a 3/8” to 1/4” wye fitting and supply both membranes in parallel…

— once you’ve opened up all plumbing up to the RO membrane housings to at least .250” ID, you can probably stick with 1/4” (OD, .170ID) tubing/fittings from there! (The RO housing splits the high volume of water to two different outlets; product, and waste… therefore each of the two 1/4” lines out of the RO membrane housing has lower GPM flow rates than the single 3/8” line feeding the membrane housings!

— RO waste line might need a size upgrade, it depends on the flow restrictor used…

 

[Shirak]

I completed my upgrade. I added the second membrane in series and added a AquaticLife Smart Buddies 200GPD booster system. I went with the Smart Buddie because the reviews were good and it had a short delivery time compared to the other units.

I ran the second membrane with a 100GPD membrane for a few days while I waited for the booster pump. My input pressure is 64 PSI, so I figured it should be OK, not great, but OK. My TDS coming out of the membrane went up from 6 to 7. My main membrane is old and needs to be replaced. I did see noticable increase in flow, but didn't measure because it wasn't impressive.

The Smart Buddie arrived last night, so I added it and replaced the membranes with 200GPD membranes. My input pressure while the valve is closed and the pump is running get up to about 84 PSI before the auto shut off kicks in. When running, the pressure is 72 PSI. I was surprised that my TDS out of the membranes was still 6 to 7. I am now getting impressive flow. I did a test, and it takes an average 4:50 to fill a one-gallon jug (12 gallons an hour) and this is waiting a few minutes for the initial purge, so it is not assisted by excess pressure build-up.

Overall I'm satisfied. I do wish I could increase the operating pressure to 80+ PSI, as I feel that would drop my output TDS and get me over 300GPD.

Bumping pressure will help a little with the output tds but could just be the membranes. There are many brands and they can vary quite a bit in performance and rejection rates.
You mentioned your source tds at around 180ppm so a 98% rejection would be just around 4tds output but a 96% rejection would put you around the 7ish range you are seeing. Your second membrane will have a higher tds output because the input is higher than your source if you are feeding it from the waste line of the first membrane.

 

[Freenow54]

I have a BRS 6 Stage 75GPD RODI filter. I need to replace the media and membrane. I also want to increase the flow by adding a second membrane and booster pump. . I have a dual DI setup.

I am a huge Amazon buyer because of their easy and free next day shipping as a prime member. With that said I’m looking for assistance in finding the following:

1. A second membrane unit with Y adaptor to unify the product output of both membranes.
2. DI Resin, Carbon Block, and Particulate filter recommendations. I want carbon specialized for chloramine removal. I have relatively particulate free water.
3. What is the best/highest flow membranes and what size booster pump would I need based on the membranes. Can I get two 200GPD membranes and get to 400GOD (both items listed below)?

https://a.co/d/0cMZ6GZh

https://a.co/d/074OfUnu

As to adding the membrane they sell a three way valve that you can reduce to 1/4 tubing easy. I am posting my mixed bed resin works great have to keep moist and out of light made a 4 inch ABS tube capped at one end and a pipe to threaded female coupling with a threaded plug in the other. The rest is up to you . I get my filters meant for my Geek UV and my RO from amazon for Watts . I have no idea if sizes are universal , but I would think so . I don't know why you want such high output . Mine is zero waste and does 24 GPD which allows me to use a much lower cost UV set up. I was convinced by Randy Holmes Farley to do so , and It was excellent advice

. MY UV with an extra bulb cost $60 Canadian with replacement parts available. I bought a whole new unit as it was cheaper and gave me a new quartz sleeve which I could not find

 

[Freenow54]

Funny you should ask. I looked into running through the space used by the HVAC vents. Since it would be the first floor of a two-story house, the space is tight. The biggest issue is that there is a firewall that is not accessible wihtout cut a large chunk out of the ceiling. The HVAC people told they ducts are installed before the ceiling, so they have access when the house is being built. I also looked into pulling the crown molding, but I wouldn't be able to go up and over the door for the vanity bathroom next to my home office. I had an AC drainline leak that damage the wall in the hallway. My contractor looked in the wall when he opened it up because I figured I might as well take advantage of the situation, and he said he didn't have a way to get a line there from the inside. I would have to go from the outside. I really don't like having holes drilled on the outside. We had a really bad experience when I was a kid. I have very little luck with these things.



I'm not familiar with this kind of float switch. I'll look into it.


I was wondering the same thing. Few vendor make it easy to find the flow rate spec for their efficiency claims. I saw a coupe resins and carbon blocks with ranges as high as 3 gallons a minute and 1 gallon on the low end. I saw a cheap product that was 0.5 gallons per minute but I would buy that any way. I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of flow you could put through the cabon block and resin.


The good news is Aquatic Life makes a 200 GPD Smart Buddie. The SKU is 660730. It is available on Amazon for $157. The price difference between the 75 GPD Smart Buddie and 200 GPD Smart Buddie is so small ($15), I wonder why they don't make one unit with an adjustable flow rate.


That is so cool. I never would have thought it would end up being parallel. That's so good to know. I was concerned that high TDS wastewater would be going to the second membrane.


I'm surprised the kits I've seen don't come with the new restrictor. Do you have any thoughts on the specs of the appropriate restrictor, or are they explicitly labeled for the membrane flow rate? EDIT: I found the answer to this question. They do label the restrictors in ML/Min. I would need 2,000 ML/Min restrictor.

BTW, thank you so much for the engagement. You have made me aware of many things I previously wasn't aware.

I did not read all the way through so forgive me > DO NOT compromise the firewall you are I assume in a semi Detached . Can you just use the duct work itself ? then floor trim ?

 

[kboogie]

All good suggestions.

For the 3/8” upgrade, is that everywhere or what I’ll refer to as input into the system and output of the system. That would be the line from the facet into the RO sediment filter, the line from the carbon block into the booster, the line from the booster into the membrane, and the line from the output of the DI which is basically the final output? This leaves the lines in between each stage as the original 1/4”.

Hmm… given that you’re already pushing the limits of 1/4” (per the above comparison of frictional loss per-GPM) on the “supply” side of the system at 72PSI, I think you’re going to start hitting a proverbial wall with product water output rate without converting most of the system to 3/8”…

— on a BRS RODI, the sediment and carbon filtration stages are interconnected by 1/4” NPT “nipple” fittings… these are measured by ID, so they are not points of restriction and can be ignored…

— the sediment and carbon housings have a 1/4” female NPT inlet and outlet at each end of the housing chain, so switching from a 1/4” push connect to a 3/8” push connect fitting on each end should be easy…

— the ASO for the city water supply might be a bit of a challenge… I’ve never looked for one in 3/8”… I suppose you could run two 1/4” units in parallel to reach your target flow rate if necessary!

— the RO membranes are likewise a challenge, as the housings are only 1/8” NPT… you can switch to a different universal housing with 1/4” NPT inlet threads, or use a 3/8” to 1/4” wye fitting and supply both membranes in parallel…

— once you’ve opened up all plumbing up to the RO membrane housings to at least .250” ID, you can probably stick with 1/4” (OD, .170ID) tubing/fittings from there! (The RO housing splits the high volume of water to two different outlets; product, and waste… therefore each of the two 1/4” lines out of the RO membrane housing has lower GPM flow rates than the single 3/8” line feeding the membrane housings!

— RO waste line might need a size upgrade, it depends on the flow restrictor used…

That makes sense. Thank you for the detailed explanation. Very helpful!!

 

[kboogie]

I completed my upgrade. I added the second membrane in series and added a AquaticLife Smart Buddies 200GPD booster system. I went with the Smart Buddie because the reviews were good and it had a short delivery time compared to the other units.

I ran the second membrane with a 100GPD membrane for a few days while I waited for the booster pump. My input pressure is 64 PSI, so I figured it should be OK, not great, but OK. My TDS coming out of the membrane went up from 6 to 7. My main membrane is old and needs to be replaced. I did see noticable increase in flow, but didn't measure because it wasn't impressive.

The Smart Buddie arrived last night, so I added it and replaced the membranes with 200GPD membranes. My input pressure while the valve is closed and the pump is running get up to about 84 PSI before the auto shut off kicks in. When running, the pressure is 72 PSI. I was surprised that my TDS out of the membranes was still 6 to 7. I am now getting impressive flow. I did a test, and it takes an average 4:50 to fill a one-gallon jug (12 gallons an hour) and this is waiting a few minutes for the initial purge, so it is not assisted by excess pressure build-up.

Overall I'm satisfied. I do wish I could increase the operating pressure to 80+ PSI, as I feel that would drop my output TDS and get me over 300GPD.

I should have mentioned in my previous post that the input TDS is 103. I guess the city is being kind to us this month.

Based on the 103 input I’m at 94% rejection.

 

[kboogie]

Funny you should ask. I looked into running through the space used by the HVAC vents. Since it would be the first floor of a two-story house, the space is tight. The biggest issue is that there is a firewall that is not accessible wihtout cut a large chunk out of the ceiling. The HVAC people told they ducts are installed before the ceiling, so they have access when the house is being built. I also looked into pulling the crown molding, but I wouldn't be able to go up and over the door for the vanity bathroom next to my home office. I had an AC drainline leak that damage the wall in the hallway. My contractor looked in the wall when he opened it up because I figured I might as well take advantage of the situation, and he said he didn't have a way to get a line there from the inside. I would have to go from the outside. I really don't like having holes drilled on the outside. We had a really bad experience when I was a kid. I have very little luck with these things.



I'm not familiar with this kind of float switch. I'll look into it.


I was wondering the same thing. Few vendor make it easy to find the flow rate spec for their efficiency claims. I saw a coupe resins and carbon blocks with ranges as high as 3 gallons a minute and 1 gallon on the low end. I saw a cheap product that was 0.5 gallons per minute but I would buy that any way. I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of flow you could put through the cabon block and resin.


The good news is Aquatic Life makes a 200 GPD Smart Buddie. The SKU is 660730. It is available on Amazon for $157. The price difference between the 75 GPD Smart Buddie and 200 GPD Smart Buddie is so small ($15), I wonder why they don't make one unit with an adjustable flow rate.


That is so cool. I never would have thought it would end up being parallel. That's so good to know. I was concerned that high TDS wastewater would be going to the second membrane.


I'm surprised the kits I've seen don't come with the new restrictor. Do you have any thoughts on the specs of the appropriate restrictor, or are they explicitly labeled for the membrane flow rate? EDIT: I found the answer to this question. They do label the restrictors in ML/Min. I would need 2,000 ML/Min restrictor.

BTW, thank you so much for the engagement. You have made me aware of many things I previously wasn't aware.

I did not read all the way through so forgive me > DO NOT compromise the firewall you are I assume in a semi Detached . Can you just use the duct work itself ? then floor trim ?

I’m not sure if there is a gap of some sort in the duct work that would allow for running a waterline. I have to go by what the AC guys and my contractor tell me. I don’t do tight dark spaces.

 

[Freenow54]

I’m not sure if there is a gap of some sort in the duct work that would allow for running a waterline. I have to go by what the AC guys and my contractor tell me. I don’t do tight dark spaces.

No in the actual duct