Royal gramma flashing flukes?

Hebrewhammer

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Starting on Wednesday I noticed my royal gramma began flashing on my hob intake and heater. I went down the rabbit hole of ich treatments because I thought it was ich but I have had the fish for about 3 weeks and this is the first time it has down anything visibly weird.

Flash forward to today I have yet to see any white spots on the body (its hard to even tell on the fins). So I bought some prazipro since I was thinking it might be flukes but that is not going to get here till Thursday. I also just saw my guy do a really really big yawn.

Is this flukes and if it is can I wait till Thursday for treatment or do I need to rush around town for a bottle of prazipro?

PXL_20220904_151918540.jpg
 
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Starting on Wednesday I noticed my royal gramma began flashing on my hob intake and heater. I went down the rabbit hole of ich treatments because I thought it was ich but I have had the fish for about 3 weeks and this is the first time it has down anything visibly weird.

Flash forward to today I have yet to see any white spots on the body (its hard to even tell on the fins). So I bought some prazipro since I was thinking it might be flukes but that is not going to get here till Thursday. I also just saw my guy do a really really big yawn.

Is this flukes and if it is can I wait till Thursday for treatment or do I need to rush around town for a bottle of prazipro?

PXL_20220904_151918540.jpg
It is possible and some signs will be gills will be red or swollen with rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects. They may also exhibit what looks like yawning from gill irritation develop, cloudy eyes and loss of color .
 

Sharkbait19

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Try doing a 5 minute freshwater dip. You would be able to see the flukes in there, and if it is flukes (or ich) the dip will provide temporary relief.
Prazi can be dosed to the tank, but is best in a separate qt.
Gobies will yawn frequently, I’m not sure that’s going to be a sign of flukes in this case.
 
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Starting on Wednesday I noticed my royal gramma began flashing on my hob intake and heater. I went down the rabbit hole of ich treatments because I thought it was ich but I have had the fish for about 3 weeks and this is the first time it has down anything visibly weird.

Flash forward to today I have yet to see any white spots on the body (its hard to even tell on the fins). So I bought some prazipro since I was thinking it might be flukes but that is not going to get here till Thursday. I also just saw my guy do a really really big yawn.

Is this flukes and if it is can I wait till Thursday for treatment or do I need to rush around town for a bottle of prazipro?

PXL_20220904_151918540.jpg
Sounds like flukes.
One way to make sure is to do a fresh water dip in a black container and check for signs of flukes after 5 mins. If you see small but visible round sesame like things then those are flukes. If not then it means he possibly have gill flukes which FWD doesn’t always work. Then observe a bit more before dosing prazipro at half the strength before ramping up to full dosage over 2 days. Make sure to add an air pump while doing so. Make sure there is no curpramine in there.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Starting on Wednesday I noticed my royal gramma began flashing on my hob intake and heater. I went down the rabbit hole of ich treatments because I thought it was ich but I have had the fish for about 3 weeks and this is the first time it has down anything visibly weird.

Flash forward to today I have yet to see any white spots on the body (its hard to even tell on the fins). So I bought some prazipro since I was thinking it might be flukes but that is not going to get here till Thursday. I also just saw my guy do a really really big yawn.

Is this flukes and if it is can I wait till Thursday for treatment or do I need to rush around town for a bottle of prazipro?

PXL_20220904_151918540.jpg

Flukes don't kill fish too quickly, but of course, I have no way of knowing how long your gramma has been sick.

Have you ever done a freshwater dip? Those can be used to kill off existing flukes, to buy the fish some time. They don't cure flukes because there are always some eggs/offspring out in the tank to reinfect the fish.

Then, when you get the Prazipro, you should add good aeration to the tank and dose it twice, 8 or 9 days apart.

jay
 
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Hebrewhammer

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Flukes don't kill fish too quickly, but of course, I have no way of knowing how long your gramma has been sick.

Have you ever done a freshwater dip? Those can be used to kill off existing flukes, to buy the fish some time. They don't cure flukes because there are always some eggs/offspring out in the tank to reinfect the fish.

Then, when you get the Prazipro, you should add good aeration to the tank and dose it twice, 8 or 9 days apart.

jay
Sounds good. I mean my fish has been great till Wednesday. Hardy water. Always out to greet everyone when they go to the tank and I have been feeding 3 times a day. Nls pellets or frozen mysis with selcon (sometimes brine but my fish love mysis).

The only problem is that I can't catch the guy and I don't want to overly stress him out. He is so fast and I did too good of a job making a scape that provides shelter.
 
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I would just wait then. Killing/injuring a fish trying to catch it for a FW dip isn't a good thing!

Jay
 
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Hebrewhammer

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Sounds like flukes.
One way to make sure is to do a fresh water dip in a black container and check for signs of flukes after 5 mins. If you see small but visible round sesame like things then those are flukes. If not then it means he possibly have gill flukes which FWD doesn’t always work. Then observe a bit more before dosing prazipro at half the strength before ramping up to full dosage over 2 days. Make sure to add an air pump while doing so. Make sure there is no curpramine in there.
I hope so. I didnt like the idea of having to go fallow or ttm (I can only have one tank in my apartment and my gf would kill me if I had buckets all around haha).
 
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How about start dosing api general cure?
That works as well, since it has prazi in it. Just keep to the schedule I noted, I think they give a different dose on the package.
Jay
 

sc50964

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That works as well, since it has prazi in it. Just keep to the schedule I noted, I think they give a different dose on the package.
Jay
It has a lower concentration than prazipro. I recall it’s 2.5 vs 2.0 ppm but i may be confusing those numbers with copper but the general statement of it being lower and more tolerable to sensitive fish is true. I also find it to be less prone to cause a bacteria bloom than prazipro.
 

Jay Hemdal

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It has a lower concentration than prazipro. I recall it’s 2.5 vs 2.0 ppm but i may be confusing those numbers with copper but the general statement of it being lower and more tolerable to sensitive fish is true. I also find it to be less prone to cause a bacteria bloom than prazipro.

It turns out that dosing praziquantel is pretty much independent of the dose; 2 to 4 mg/l gives the same results. The higher doses are needed in tanks where heterotrophic bacteria have grown due to previous doses; they consume prazi pretty fast, so you need to dose higher on account of that.

Yes - the bacterial blooms with prazipro is due to the solvent they use - a glycol that bacteria acts on just like carbon dosing with alcohol.

Jay
 
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sc50964

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It turns out that dosing praziquantel is pretty much independent of the dose; 2 to 4 mg/l gives the same results. The higher doses are needed in tanks where heterotrophic bacteria have grown due to previous doses; they consume prazi pretty fast, so you need to dose higher on account of that.

Yes - the bacterial blooms with prazipro is due to the solvent they use - a glycol that bacteria acts on just like carbon dosing with alcohol.

Jay
Great. Thanks
what is heterotrophic bacteria?
 

Jay Hemdal

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Great. Thanks
what is heterotrophic bacteria?
Just bacteria that breaks down organic material as food - in this case, are able to use praziquantel as food.
Jay
 
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Jay Hemdal

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I Have a similar issue in my tank. Is api general cure safe for corals and inverts, if I were to dose the DT?

I wouldn't use General Cure, the metronidazole component is not really reef safe. Prazipro is a better choice in your case.

jay
 
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Hebrewhammer

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Update

so as I said my package of prazipro came in today and I just did my first dose. No reactions at first but few hours later and the gramma is flashing a lot more than usual with the mouth/gill stretching.

I will see how it is doing in the next few days. bottle says you can do a dose every 3 days but not sure if the case is severe enough.
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Update

so as I said my package of prazipro came in today and I just did my first dose. No reactions at first but few hours later and the gramma is flashing a lot more than usual with the mouth/gill stretching.

I will see how it is doing in the next few days. bottle says you can do a dose every 3 days but not sure if the case is severe enough.
You won’t see any improvement for 24 to 36 hours. You should redose after 8 or 9 days, their 3 day gap is too short to catch eggs in the tank that could still hatch out.

Jay
 

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