RTN issues

[PhantomHalo]

Hello, I’m in desperate need of help. I’m at the end of my rope with this tank. I finally broke down and got an Alkatronic, carx, GHL Doser (not hooked up yet), been testing every day to ensure my nitrates and phosphates aren’t bottoming out, and my frags that I have been acclimating are just dropping like flies with being pale and then RTN. Anyone have at ideas? Some Acros look good, but these frags are just dying off. It’s getting expensive real quick! Parameters below. I’m running 3x ReefBreeders Photon V2+, 8 light bars (mix of OR3’s and ReefBreeder light bars), skimmer, UV Filter, Kalkwasser in my ATO to boost ph, and carx. No GFO, carbon, or anything else. Thoughts? Any other tests I should do? I have an ICP test I just got in the mail. Just haven’t sent it in yet.

Tank has been running for over a year and started with base rock, but added about 55lbs of live rock straight out of ocean near Florida. Have also dosed prodibio bacteria to help with super high nitrates in the past.
Coral notes: bubble gum digi is more of a yellow color for its flesh at the tips, healthy otherwise as far as polyp extension and growth. Only have greens, yellows, and reds elsewhere. Blues fade to gray or white, purple fades to very light purple.

Quick parameters that have been very close to this for almost a month:
Temp: 77
Salinity: 1.026
pH: 7.8-8.1
Alk: 8.7-8.9
PO4: .08 (Hanna)
NO3: >4ppm (Red Sea Pro) (dosing sodium nitrate Reagent grade to keep it up) Need to make RO for the higher range test but just checked it yesterday at 4ppm and added enough sodium nitrate to boost it to 5-5.5.

 

[Pistol Peet]

Get brightwell coral recover c a n be dosed directly to your display tank with no side-effects... treats RTN...

 

[PhantomHalo]

Get brightwell coral recover c a n be dosed directly to your display tank with no side-effects... treats RTN...

Done. It’s on its way. Anything else I can do in the meantime?

 

[stephj03]

What's your fish list and how often do you feed?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Have you checked your par?

 

[PhantomHalo]

What's your fish list and how often do you feed?

Fish list is:
3xTriggers (blue throat, black trigger, and pink tail)
4xTangs (blue hippo, PBT, yellow, and desjardini)
4xWrasses (Hawaiian cleaner, melanurus, christmas, yellow corris)
2xPerculas
2xChromis

I feed pellets twice a day via auto feeder that only drops a tiny bit of food at a time. All gone in less than a minute. Seaweed every other day. Frozen mysis and rods food mix 2-3 times a week. AB+ once a week. Acropower once a week as well. (Sorry, should have added that in the initial post.) RTN was happening before I started Acropower.

 

[PhantomHalo]

Have you checked your par?

Yes, I have a par meter and everything is getting 175+ one of which was getting 250+. The RTN is up at high flow and lower flow as well. Light channels are royal blue, UV, and cool blue at 100% 13” above the tank and whites at 40%.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Fish list is:
3xTriggers (blue throat, black trigger, and pink tail)
4xTangs (blue hippo, PBT, yellow, and desjardini)
4xWrasses (Hawaiian cleaner, melanurus, christmas, yellow corris)
2xPerculas
2xChromis

I feed pellets twice a day via auto feeder that only drops a tiny bit of food at a time. All gone in less than a minute. Seaweed every other day. Frozen mysis and rods food mix 2-3 times a week. AB+ once a week. Acropower once a week as well. (Sorry, should have added that in the initial post.) RTN was happening before I started Acropower.

Sounds like you’re not feeding enough.

 

[PhantomHalo]

Sounds like you’re not feeding enough.

Even though my PO4 and NO3 are up? I agree they could be fed more, but I’m walking a fine line of a GHA outbreak and making sure they are all fed. They are all super fat btw. I can’t keep a traditional clean up crew of snails and crabs due to the triggers. So I have to make sure my nutrients are in check. If this is causing it though, I’ll increase them for sure!

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

What’s more important? No algae or healthy sps.
This is my 50g cube
I feed 3 cubes of frozen mysis everyday

It doesn’t matter what your residual no3/po4 are. Sps need fish poop (ammonia/ammonium). I would start by feeding your fish more. My skimmer is off for 12 hours while my lights are on also
And look how “stable” my big 3 are

 

[stephj03]

How bad exactly is the GHA?

Residuals are only indirectly important IME. And things get complicated when competing consumers like GHA are present.

However much fear you have of feeding more are letting your skimmer drain back into the tank, you should have at least that much fear that the residuals you are dosing are simply feeding the algae if there is a lot of it.

 

[stephj03]

Maybe keep an eye out for a seahare. I would think the triggers would leave one alone more than a snail.

Any chance your triggers are small enough to leave mexican turbos alone?

 

[PhantomHalo]

Thanks all! I’ll up the feedings. The GHA right now is all over in my sump. My DT has some, but it has more of this kind that grows under rocks and on the back wall. It doesn’t look like GHA based on color since it’s more brown. However, it’s growing just as fast as GHA and takes over really quick. I’ve tried Mexican turbos. They get eaten within the day. The triggers are pretty good size. That’s why I have 4 tangs. Forgot to mention a lawnmower blenny too. They are all super fat!
So even though I’m dosing NO3, it’s nit enough for the corals? I’m just trying to wrap my head around the RTN and low food. Sorry, just learning and frustrated that I can’t seem to get this right.

 

[lemonade]

You likely have more NO3 and PO4 than you think if you're having a GHA outbreak, and dosing either is just feeding the algae. Your best bet is to feed more until there's enough left over for the corals. Algae is a phase in every tanks maturation. Some try hard to fight it and end up prolonging their issues. WC and manual removal of the algae is best. Eventually the corals will consume more than the algae and it will wither away.

You said you got rock straight out of the ocean near florida? Was it in FL or somewhere else? If it wasn't rock from a part of the ocean that has reefs then I wouldn't put it in a tank. Near shore LR can hold phosphate and all kinds of nasty stuff that washes out the bays and inlets. The rock will constantly leach this and be a magnet for algae.

 

[PhantomHalo]

You likely have more NO3 and PO4 than you think if you're having a GHA outbreak, and dosing either is just feeding the algae. Your best bet is to feed more until there's enough left over for the corals. Algae is a phase in every tanks maturation. Some try hard to fight it and end up prolonging their issues. WC and manual removal of the algae is best. Eventually the corals will consume more than the algae and it will wither away.

You said you got rock straight out of the ocean near florida? Was it in FL or somewhere else? If it wasn't rock from a part of the ocean that has reefs then I wouldn't put it in a tank. Near shore LR can hold phosphate and all kinds of nasty stuff that washes out the bays and inlets. The rock will constantly leach this and be a magnet for algae.

It was from LiveRockandReef.com. Their primo deco rock that I had overnighted to my house. Plus some more from one of my local pet stores. I don’t think it’s GHA since it’s not growing in the light and it’s not green. Some of it is, but not all of it. I’ll try to find some pictures to post. However, how much do I need to dose to ensure the corals are getting enough? I test the next day and I still have 2+ppm NO3 after dosing up to 5ppm.

 

[Dr. Jim]

It was from LiveRockandReef.com. Their primo deco rock that I had overnighted to my house. Plus some more from one of my local pet stores. I don’t think it’s GHA since it’s not growing in the light and it’s not green. Some of it is, but not all of it. I’ll try to find some pictures to post. However, how much do I need to dose to ensure the corals are getting enough? I test the next day and I still have 2+ppm NO3 after dosing up to 5ppm.

I wish I didn't read that you have rock from LiveRockNReef! I've been having nothing but problems with SPS in my 1 yr old cube SPS Q-tank and I have the same rock. I won't jump to "conclusions" based on just two tanks with this rock, but I would like to ask:

Is anyone out there with LiveRockNReef rock having SPS problems OR having great SPS success with this rock?

 

[PhantomHalo]

I wish I didn't read that you have rock from LiveRockNReef! I've been having nothing but problems with SPS in my 1 yr old cube SPS Q-tank and I have the same rock. I won't jump to "conclusions" based on just two tanks with this rock, but I would like to ask:

Is anyone out there with LiveRockNReef rock having SPS problems OR having great SPS success with this rock?

Interesting. I have most of the rock in my sump, but I put one piece in my display because it was a natural arch. Are you thinking pests or contaminates? Just speculation of course. It seemed like good rock when I got it in. Not much really life on it other than algae though.

 

[Dr. Jim]

Interesting. I have most of the rock in my sump, but I put one piece in my display because it was a natural arch. Are you thinking pests or contaminates? Just speculation of course. It seemed like good rock when I got it in. Not much really life on it other than algae though.

I was thinking "contaminants" although I also think this would be a long-shot for being the cause of my problem.....but anything is possible. I was going along with what @lemonade said about rock taken from the shore to be "made" into live rock that might be loaded with "nasty stuff."

(If there is something toxic in the rock then of course it doesn't matter if it is in the sump or MT. Same could be said for most pests that might be in the rock).

 

[Cory]

Id try to get po4 up to .10ppm

Also start looking into rust/metals in all possible places. Pumps. Ro water lines etc.

 

[PhantomHalo]

Id try to get po4 up to .10ppm

Also start looking into rust/metals in all possible places. Pumps. Ro water lines etc.

This may be a possibility since I have stainless steel by the sump. Didn’t think it would affect it though being stainless steel... Time to remove it to be safe I guess.
I upped my feeding today and included reef chili as well as reef roids. Hopefully that will bring it up without dosing.
Btw, thank you all for the inputs! I am trying everything I can to be successful at this, but it’s just one thing after another. Can only get kicked in the nuts so many times before you just walk away. lol