Running a PH meter with Kalk Stirrer

[MichaelReefer]

How do I go about setting up a second PH Meter for my Apex? I am fairly new to it, have only had my apex like three months. Is there a second plug I can hook it to? Do I need to change anything in the Apex system to have it show up? Appreciate any help. @SuncrestReef

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How do you intend to use the pH meter?

Inside the stirrer or in the aquarium?

As a fail safe shut down of dosing in overdose scenarios?

To control pH? (or die trying lol)

I'm not knowledgeable on APEX protocols, but I am on pH and related issues.

 

[MichaelReefer]

How do you intend to use the pH meter?

Inside the stirrer or in the aquarium?

As a fail safe shut down of dosing in overdose scenarios?

To control pH? (or die trying lol)

I'm not knowledgeable on APEX protocols, but I am on pH and related issues.

I have a PH probe on the tank already, I would like to put one on the Kalk Stirrer to watch the saturation and when it begins to drop under 12.5

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have a PH probe on the tank already, I would like to put one on the Kalk Stirrer to watch the saturation and when it begins to drop under 12.5

I would not leave a pH electrode in kalkwasser constantly. it is not only a poor way to gauge potency, you will see pH drift unless you use a special electrode. The drift in the pH measurement may be substantial relative to potency changes. A drop from pH 12.54 (saturation at 25 deg C) to 12.40 is a drop of 38% potency.

Conductivity is a better way to monitor the potency. It is easy to detect a 10+% drop in potency that way. I still might not leave it 24/7 though since the electrodes may get coated with calcium hydroxide and carbonate.

This discusses the pH issue on page 29:

https://www.fondriest.com/pdf/thermo_ph_electrode_hb.pdf

pH Measurements in Extreme pH or High Salt Content Samples Samples with a pH less than 2, pH greater than 12 and salt content greater than 0.1 M include battery acid, copper plating solutions and brines. These samples create measurement issues with the reference portion of the pH electrode, due to the liquid junction potential. The liquid junction potential occurs when there is a large difference in composition between the filling solution and the sample, resulting in measurement drift and slow electrode response. In samples with a pH of 2 to 12 or salt content less than 0.1 M, the liquid junction potential is rarely a problem since the filling solution is formulated for the best performance under these conditions. In samples with a pH less than 2, pH greater than 12 or a salt content greater than 0.1 M, a pH electrode with a ROSS or double junction Ag/AgCl reference is recommended. The filling solution of the ROSS Ultra, ROSS and refillable Double Junction pH electrodes can be modified to match the sample composition, which will reduce the liquid junction potential and provide accurate, more stable measurements in these samples. For samples with a pH greater than 12, add a dilute base to the recommended electrode filling solution to raise the filling solution pH. For samples with a pH less than 2, add a dilute acid to the recommended electrode filling solution to lower the filling solution pH. For samples with a high salt content, use a 30 | Thermo Scientific strong solution of the same salt as the electrode filling solution. For example, when measuring the pH of sodium bromide brines, use sodium bromide in the outer chamber of a double junction electrode.

 

[MichaelReefer]

I would not leave a pH electrode in kalkwasser constantly. it is not only a poor way to gauge potency, you will see pH drift unless you use a special electrode. The drift in the pH measurement may be substantial relative to potency changes. A drop from pH 12.54 (saturation at 25 deg C) to 12.40 is a drop of 38% potency.

Conductivity is a better way to monitor the potency. It is easy to detect a 10+% drop in potency that way. I still might not leave it 24/7 though since the electrodes may get coated with calcium hydroxide and carbonate.

This discusses the pH issue on page 29:

https://www.fondriest.com/pdf/thermo_ph_electrode_hb.pdf

pH Measurements in Extreme pH or High Salt Content Samples Samples with a pH less than 2, pH greater than 12 and salt content greater than 0.1 M include battery acid, copper plating solutions and brines. These samples create measurement issues with the reference portion of the pH electrode, due to the liquid junction potential. The liquid junction potential occurs when there is a large difference in composition between the filling solution and the sample, resulting in measurement drift and slow electrode response. In samples with a pH of 2 to 12 or salt content less than 0.1 M, the liquid junction potential is rarely a problem since the filling solution is formulated for the best performance under these conditions. In samples with a pH less than 2, pH greater than 12 or a salt content greater than 0.1 M, a pH electrode with a ROSS or double junction Ag/AgCl reference is recommended. The filling solution of the ROSS Ultra, ROSS and refillable Double Junction pH electrodes can be modified to match the sample composition, which will reduce the liquid junction potential and provide accurate, more stable measurements in these samples. For samples with a pH greater than 12, add a dilute base to the recommended electrode filling solution to raise the filling solution pH. For samples with a pH less than 2, add a dilute acid to the recommended electrode filling solution to lower the filling solution pH. For samples with a high salt content, use a 30 | Thermo Scientific strong solution of the same salt as the electrode filling solution. For example, when measuring the pH of sodium bromide brines, use sodium bromide in the outer chamber of a double junction electrode.

Hmm, interesting. Is there a specific device you recommend, since you say conductivity? Something that is constant? Or runs tests so often like an apex? I more want a way to keep track of when it actually needs to be replaced.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hmm, interesting. Is there a specific device you recommend, since you say conductivity? I more want a way to keep track of when it actually needs to be replaced.

The APEX can measure conductivity, but there are many other devices for that too. Hanna, American Marine/Pinpoint and many other companies sell them. Sometimes they are called salinity meters:

PINPOINT® Salinity Monitor

The PINPOINT® Salinity Monitor will accurately and immediately measure the amount of salt in any marine or freshwater system. The reading is fully temperature compensated, which is difficult or impossible with nearly any commercial hydrometer. PINPOINT® Salinity Calibration Fluid 53.0 MS =...

americanmarineusa.com

 

[Reef AquaCult]

Poor mans way. Zip tie conductivity probe and check a few times a week. Takes about 2 seconds to turn it on and get a reading. I don’t see a real need for apex connectivity. Mine fully saturated is 4300-4400 us/cm. Total cost, $12

 

[MichaelReefer]

The APEX can measure conductivity, but there are many other devices for that too. Hanna, American Marine/Pinpoint and many other companies sell them. Sometimes they are called salinity meters:

PINPOINT® Salinity Monitor

The PINPOINT® Salinity Monitor will accurately and immediately measure the amount of salt in any marine or freshwater system. The reading is fully temperature compensated, which is difficult or impossible with nearly any commercial hydrometer. PINPOINT® Salinity Calibration Fluid 53.0 MS =...

americanmarineusa.com

Hmmm interesting. So I could just use basically any run of the mill salinity meter? Only reason I'm iffy on using an Apex one is they are terrible lol. Mine hops around by like .5 all day.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hmmm interesting. So I could just use basically any run of the mill salinity meter? Only reason I'm iffy on using an Apex one is they are terrible lol. Mine hops around by like .5 all day.

Any meter than can read in the range of 10 mS/cm (saturation is about 10.3 mS/cm). Not all can so check the range.