Safest and effective treatment for ICH

[saltwater newby]

hello
My ich magnet, aka blue hippo has ich. I have a 30g tank that hasn't completely cycled yet which will be my qt tank. Even though my hippo is the only one showing signs of ich I know all fish in my tank need to be put in qt. My goal with this post is to get the safest and most effective treatment for my fish while in qt. I know of all the different ways to treat it but I'm nervous about screwing up and poisoning my fish. The safest one that I've read about is hyposalinity but I know it also has its risks. The fish in my tank are 1 blue hippo,1 mallinarus wrasse,1 blue throat trigger and a pair of 1 snowflake clown fish and a oscelarus clownfish. PLEASE HELP!! Thanks!!!

 

[Humblefish]

If I were in your shoes and only had one QT to work with, I would use copper. Chelated copper (exs. Coppersafe, Copper Power) would be my first choice; followed by Cupramine.

Copper: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly Uronema marinum

How To Treat - First, it is important to know what kind of copper you are using. Cupramine is fully charged (ionic) copper, and has a therapeutic range of 0.35-0.5 mg/L or ppm. You would use a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit for Cupramine, as those are capable of reading copper in the low range. Coppersafe, on the other hand, is chelated copper. It has a much higher therapeutic range of 1.5-2.0 mg/L or ppm. As such, you need a “total copper test kit” such as API’s to measure Coppersafe.

Standard copper treatment lasts 30 consecutive days. The reason it takes so long is copper only targets the “free swimming stage” (the same holds true for all chemical treatments & hypo). While 7-14 days is the “norm” to reach this stage, certain strains of ich have prolonged life cycles. Indeed, even 30 days may not be long enough in some rare cases. This is why it is so important to observe after treatment ends, to ensure symptoms do not return.

Therapeutic copper levels must be maintained at all times during the 30 days, so testing often is important. If the level drops even slightly out of range, then the 30 day clock starts all over again. One reason your copper level may drop unexpectedly is if you are treating in a tank with rock and substrate; those should not be used in the presence of copper due to absorption. Conversely, if you exceed the therapeutic range you risk killing the fish.

Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 3-5 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hours recommended on the labels. Doing so increases your odds of successfully treating a “copper sensitive” fish. Remove copper after 30 days by running activated carbon.

Pros - Readily available

Cons/Side Effects - Appetite suppression is a common side effect. If a fish stops eating, don’t add more copper until he resumes. If the fish is still not eating after 2-3 days, start doing water changes (lowering the copper concentration) until he eats. If this happens a second time after you resume raising the copper, you’ll know you’ve encountered a “copper sensitive” fish and an alternative treatment should be used instead. Some species of fish, such as angels, puffers, lions and mandarins are notoriously difficult to treat with copper.

 

[saltwater newby]

If I were in your shoes and only had one QT to work with, I would use copper. Chelated copper (exs. Coppersafe, Copper Power) would be my first choice; followed by Cupramine.

Copper: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly Uronema marinum

How To Treat - First, it is important to know what kind of copper you are using. Cupramine is fully charged (ionic) copper, and has a therapeutic range of 0.35-0.5 mg/L or ppm. You would use a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit for Cupramine, as those are capable of reading copper in the low range. Coppersafe, on the other hand, is chelated copper. It has a much higher therapeutic range of 1.5-2.0 mg/L or ppm. As such, you need a “total copper test kit” such as API’s to measure Coppersafe.

Standard copper treatment lasts 30 consecutive days. The reason it takes so long is copper only targets the “free swimming stage” (the same holds true for all chemical treatments & hypo). While 7-14 days is the “norm” to reach this stage, certain strains of ich have prolonged life cycles. Indeed, even 30 days may not be long enough in some rare cases. This is why it is so important to observe after treatment ends, to ensure symptoms do not return.

Therapeutic copper levels must be maintained at all times during the 30 days, so testing often is important. If the level drops even slightly out of range, then the 30 day clock starts all over again. One reason your copper level may drop unexpectedly is if you are treating in a tank with rock and substrate; those should not be used in the presence of copper due to absorption. Conversely, if you exceed the therapeutic range you risk killing the fish.

Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 3-5 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hours recommended on the labels. Doing so increases your odds of successfully treating a “copper sensitive” fish. Remove copper after 30 days by running activated carbon.

Pros - Readily available

Cons/Side Effects - Appetite suppression is a common side effect. If a fish stops eating, don’t add more copper until he resumes. If the fish is still not eating after 2-3 days, start doing water changes (lowering the copper concentration) until he eats. If this happens a second time after you resume raising the copper, you’ll know you’ve encountered a “copper sensitive” fish and an alternative treatment should be used instead. Some species of fish, such as angels, puffers, lions and mandarins are notoriously difficult to treat with copper.

So copper is the way to go. I don't trust myself with treating copper
I'm afraid I'll kill my fish. That's why I wanted to try hyposalinity.

 

[Humblefish]

So copper is the way to go. I don't trust myself with treating copper
I'm afraid I'll kill my fish. That's why I wanted to try hyposalinity.

Hypo is not without its pitfalls (read below).

Hyposalinity: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) only.

How To Treat - Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG down to 1.009. You must use a perfectly calibrated refractometer at all times while doing hypo. Treat for 30 consecutive days, and during that time the SG must always remain at 1.009. If it inches up even slightly, the 30 day clock restarts. For this reason, many people use an auto top off system while performing hyposalinity. Some have even used hypo to successfully rid their display tank of ich, while others have failed. All corals and inverts must be removed beforehand if you wish to try this.

One of the challenges posed by hypo is maintaining a proper pH for the entire duration. While fish aren’t overly sensitive to low pH for short periods of time, anything continuously lower than 7.5 is going to be a problem. So, you will have to constantly test and then buffer the water to raise the pH. This can be accomplished by using supplements (available at most LFS) or you can “bake” your own DIY supplement by using baking soda. Spread baking soda onto a clean baking sheet, and bake at 300F for 1 hour. This process drives off water and carbon dioxide from the baking soda, and the result is an effective pH buffer. You will need to experiment (start with a very small amount) to determine how much is needed to raise your pH to the desired level.

Pros - Chemical free solution to ich, gentle on the fish.

Cons/Side Effects - Difficult to execute properly, and hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (study done by Yambot in 2003.)

 

[saltwater newby]

Hypo is not without its pitfalls (read below).

Hyposalinity: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) only.

How To Treat - Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG down to 1.009. You must use a perfectly calibrated refractometer at all times while doing hypo. Treat for 30 consecutive days, and during that time the SG must always remain at 1.009. If it inches up even slightly, the 30 day clock restarts. For this reason, many people use an auto top off system while performing hyposalinity. Some have even used hypo to successfully rid their display tank of ich, while others have failed. All corals and inverts must be removed beforehand if you wish to try this.

One of the challenges posed by hypo is maintaining a proper pH for the entire duration. While fish aren’t overly sensitive to low pH for short periods of time, anything continuously lower than 7.5 is going to be a problem. So, you will have to constantly test and then buffer the water to raise the pH. This can be accomplished by using supplements (available at most LFS) or you can “bake” your own DIY supplement by using baking soda. Spread baking soda onto a clean baking sheet, and bake at 300F for 1 hour. This process drives off water and carbon dioxide from the baking soda, and the result is an effective pH buffer. You will need to experiment (start with a very small amount) to determine how much is needed to raise your pH to the desired level.

Pros - Chemical free solution to ich, gentle on the fish.

Cons/Side Effects - Difficult to execute properly, and hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (study done by Yambot in 2003.)

Yeah
This sucks too

 

[Humblefish]

Two other options (below):

Tank Transfer Method: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

Chloroquine phosphate: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

 

[melypr1985]

I would go with coppersafe as well. It's easier on the fish than cuppramine- in my experience. Use and API test kit to keep an eye on the levels. I haven't had any problems with this form of copper and I use it on tons of different types of fish (including butterflies, triggers, tangs ect) at the same time. We use coppersafe at the LFS I work at. It's nerve wracking, I know, but you'll get the hang of it before long and it will become no problem at all for you. Just watch and make sure everybody is eating and that the ammonia doesn't creep up and you'll be fine.

 

[saltwater newby]

I would go with coppersafe as well. It's easier on the fish than cuppramine- in my experience. Use and API test kit to keep an eye on the levels. I haven't had any problems with this form of copper and I use it on tons of different types of fish (including butterflies, triggers, tangs ect) at the same time. We use coppersafe at the LFS I work at. It's nerve wracking, I know, but you'll get the hang of it before long and it will become no problem at all for you. Just watch and make sure everybody is eating and that the ammonia doesn't creep up and you'll be fine.

Coppersafe mardel?

 

[saltwater newby]

I would go with coppersafe as well. It's easier on the fish than cuppramine- in my experience. Use and API test kit to keep an eye on the levels. I haven't had any problems with this form of copper and I use it on tons of different types of fish (including butterflies, triggers, tangs ect) at the same time. We use coppersafe at the LFS I work at. It's nerve wracking, I know, but you'll get the hang of it before long and it will become no problem at all for you. Just watch and make sure everybody is eating and that the ammonia doesn't creep up and you'll be fine.

Which specific brand would you recommend ? How do you transfer them back in the tank after scooping them out of the qt that's had copper in it. Won't the net be contaminated??

 

[Humblefish]

Coppersafe mardel?

You want this: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4721

Or this: http://www.petmountain.com/product/...wer-copper-power-marine-copper-treatment.html

dang, copper is getting expensive.

 

[akitareefer]

Nice info on this thread

 

[revhtree]

Hypo is not without its pitfalls (read below).

Hyposalinity: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) only.

How To Treat - Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG down to 1.009. You must use a perfectly calibrated refractometer at all times while doing hypo. Treat for 30 consecutive days, and during that time the SG must always remain at 1.009. If it inches up even slightly, the 30 day clock restarts. For this reason, many people use an auto top off system while performing hyposalinity. Some have even used hypo to successfully rid their display tank of ich, while others have failed. All corals and inverts must be removed beforehand if you wish to try this.

One of the challenges posed by hypo is maintaining a proper pH for the entire duration. While fish aren’t overly sensitive to low pH for short periods of time, anything continuously lower than 7.5 is going to be a problem. So, you will have to constantly test and then buffer the water to raise the pH. This can be accomplished by using supplements (available at most LFS) or you can “bake” your own DIY supplement by using baking soda. Spread baking soda onto a clean baking sheet, and bake at 300F for 1 hour. This process drives off water and carbon dioxide from the baking soda, and the result is an effective pH buffer. You will need to experiment (start with a very small amount) to determine how much is needed to raise your pH to the desired level.

Pros - Chemical free solution to ich, gentle on the fish.

Cons/Side Effects - Difficult to execute properly, and hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (study done by Yambot in 2003.)

Great info!

 

[Reefrookie220]

Tank transfer method is 100%, I followed @Humblefish 's guide and eliminated my issues in just under 15 days.

 

[saltwater newby]

You want this: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4721

Or this: http://www.petmountain.com/product/...wer-copper-power-marine-copper-treatment.html

****, copper is getting expensive.

Which wver one of those 2 that you'd pick I'll get

 

[Humblefish]

Which wver one of those 2 that you'd pick I'll get

I'd pick Coppersafe (for you) only because I've used it before and know it works. But I'm also itching to try Copper Power, as I've heard great things about it. Either way, you probably can't go wrong. Also make sure you pickup an API copper test kit: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=15470

 

[twreefer]

Tank transfer method is 100%, I followed @Humblefish 's guide and eliminated my issues in just under 15 days.

Ditto. TTM saved my two remaining fish. It takes diligence and effort, but is still easy. My blue hippo had easily 40-50 spots on him when starting, and is now blemish-free, perky, beefing up, and back swimming happily in my DT after a 78-day absence.

 

[Humblefish]

For the hobbyist, you just can't beat TTM for ich. It also makes for an excellent prophylactic QT regimen, especially if you combine with Prazipro at the onset of transfers 2 & 4. In just 13 days you've knocked out the two hidden diseases - ich & flukes. Velvet, brook, bacterial infection, etc. is still technically possible for at least 2 more weeks, but unlikely.

I know TTM seems like a lot of work & everything, but once you are setup to do it and do it enough times, it's really not all that bad. I typically can do a transfer, and clean/sterilize the old tank in under an hour.

 

[RMAS0934]

Which specific brand would you recommend ? How do you transfer them back in the tank after scooping them out of the qt that's had copper in it. Won't the net be contaminated??

@Humblefish correct me if I'm wrong but after the copper treatment you would want to do a wc and run carbon to remove the copper, before transferring to the DT?

 

[twreefer]

I know TTM seems like a lot of work & everything, but once you are setup to do it and do it enough times, it's really not all that bad. I typically can do a transfer, and clean/sterilize the old tank in under an hour.

It was DEFINITELY a lot of work! But the results speak for themselves.

After getting my healed fish back to DT, I bought a Naso and Mandarin for the QT. I wasn't prepared for the stamina of two+ weeks of TTM, so we'll watch and see in QT! Six days in and they look great! Only 22 to go. I did 78 fallow on my DT, so what's another 22 in QT for the new guys?

Dadgum patience....

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish correct me if I'm wrong but after the copper treatment you would want to do a wc and run carbon to remove the copper, before transferring to the DT?

If your plan is to observe post copper treatment or treat with another medication (like Prazipro), then do a WC and run carbon (or Cuprisorb or a polyfilter.) However, treat with copper for at least 30 days before doing this.

However, if copper (again, 30 days worth) is at the tail end of your QT protocol and the plan is to put the fish right in the DT afterwards; then there is no reason to drop the copper level before transferring to the DT. The little bit of Cu residue on the fish's skin & the net isn't enough to make a difference, as copper is found in natural seawater at low concentrations. It's even in your salt as a trace element.