Sailfin Tang has hole in the head fin rot

[Ken Roane]

I have seen so many post in this forum about stray voltage, I don't think stray voltage will harm a fish. Electricity will travel the path of least resistance, we can measure it's presence with a voltmeter because the other probe is grounded. Fish in the tank will not feel it because they are not grounded. One other fact is that the conductivity of saltwater is higher than the fish so it doesn't need to go thru the fish.

I sent a picture earlier today. Do you receive it?

 

[excell007]

I sent a picture earlier today. Do you receive it?

I believe this is meant for @Jay Hemdal , he's the expert on fish deseases. But if it is indeed HLLE, I don't think there is a treatment to make it disappear. I have a purple tang that had it in 2005, the line did not grow pass 1/2 inch long but it was still there when the tang died in 2017.

 

[Ken Roane]

Can you post a picture and give your latest water quality results?
Thanks,

Jay

 

[Dbichler]

Why do people still believe that street voltage causes anything. If this were the case there would be no lakes or oceans with normal fish. This little thing called lightning would have destroyed them.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just off the cuff - I see some minor HLLE, but the dorsal fin erosion looks infected. I also see some "tattering" on the body and the trailing edge of the caudal fin. Can you catch the fish? Have you tried a diagnostic dip for flukes? Without being able to move the fish to a QT, there really isn't anything you can do other than give supportive care (good food, good water).

Jay

 

[Florida Dan]

I don't know if you read this yet, but very informative info. Thanks Jay!

Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE)

This article discusses studies performed regarding head and lateral line erosion in captive fishes. Specifically, carbon use and nutrition as they relate to this syndrome.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Jimmyneptune]

If it’s hard to tell what the issue is you can do several things easily to address possible issues:
Stray voltage: Grounding probe
Water quality: do several large water changes
Diet: increase amount and types of food in diet

If it was me I would increase feeding. If you can spot feed the sailfin to make sure his food intake increases. if he is timid with eating, the other fish may eat more but with the increased food they will become less interested in being aggressive, which is a bonus for the tang.

 

[Brian Hall]

Stray voltage does NOT cause HLLE, it is a "red herring". Most of what you see is induced voltage from submerged pumps, the fish are not grounded, so there is no current flow.

Did you try to post a picture? I saw one post from you that was blank....

Jay

I was looking for some help with Goldie, our yellow tang that is developing HLLE and found this thread . Goldie has been with us in a mixed reef tank for about 4 years now. At first the blemish was faint and only detectable in the blue lighting but does seem to be worsening. I have been researching the possible causes and am finding a lot of conjecture but no real scientific fact, not for a lack of study. It is hard to believe the cause for such a common abnormality has not been deduced. One thing of interest is that this condition is not found in the wild, only in captive keep fish, including tangs in prestigious aquariums. Phantom voltage has been ruled out as a potential cause as false fact, pointed out as well in this thread. Before knowing that I tested my tank with a multi meter with a negative reading for any voltage. So not the cause for Goldie's case. So the plausible causes seem to be:

STRESS- Goldie does not have any evident stress, in fact when I maintain the tank she will come rest in my hand. Very laid back.

WATER QUALITY- I have had my ups and downs but over all have good enough water quality to keep my SPS corals happy and growing. Unless there is some underlying condition. ( which could be, maybe something getting past my RODI) I don't think it is my water.

Nutrition- I feed a variety of frozen foods which include Emerald Entree daily. I also feed dried sea weed. Since I noticed the HLLE I have been feeding red macro algae. I read a lack of vitamin C may be a cause. Does any one know how to get vitamin C to the fish.? I saw someone feeding their tangs banana. Any input on this??

Carbon Filtering- I run carbon in my reactor. It is in some of my filter media. It is also in the first stage of my RODI filtration. So maybe. The lines of thinking here seem to be either that carbon irritates the fish or that it pulls so much of the nutrients from the water that it causes a deficiency that causes HLLE. No scientific study to confirm either of these. It seems this could be tied to nutrition in a way.

Has anyone had to deal with HLLE and reversed the effect? I found where an aquarium in Florida had a tang that had HLLE that reversed when the fish was let into a section of the aquarium, still part of the same system, that went outside. They attributed the recovery to the natural sunlight. The editor of the article said there were too many open variables to take that as fact. It makes me wonder though. Maybe like we need sun light to synthesize vitamin D the fish need something similar, again falling back to nutrition.

So After a long winded post, can anyone offer any assistance for Goldie?

 

[Brian Hall]

I don't know if you read this yet, but very informative info. Thanks Jay!

Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE)

This article discusses studies performed regarding head and lateral line erosion in captive fishes. Specifically, carbon use and nutrition as they relate to this syndrome.

www.reef2reef.com

I saw this after my post. Thanks Dan and Jay for that mater. I am going to try to eliminate my carbon use. If I don't have any issues with my water quality I may not need it. I will let you know if the symptoms reverse. Has anyone else had luck with reversing HLLE?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I saw this after my post. Thanks Dan and Jay for that mater. I am going to try to eliminate my carbon use. If I don't have any issues with my water quality I may not need it. I will let you know if the symptoms reverse. Has anyone else had luck with reversing HLLE?

Brian,

There was also a study by Dr. Andrew Stamper at Disney that concluded carbon causes HLLE in tangs (his study actually preceded mine by a month or two).

Carbon use is not equal in its effect - carbon pre filters for RO have no detrimental effect. Pelleted carbon is better than soft angular carbon. Tanks with wet protein skimmers and lots of corals have less of an issue with carbon use. Carbon reactors using non-pelleted carbon are by far the worst scenario. Rinsing carbon well before use may also help.

Can you post a picture of Goldie taken under white light? That might help me ascertain the severity of the case. There is a related syndrome, called epithelial thinning that may not be caused by carbon.

Reversing HLLE is rare, and in virtually all cases, it only happens when it is caught early and the fish is moved to a tank that has never had carbon on it. The "moving fish outside" story I had read about was in Hawaii, and the fish were moved to a new system, so that made the conclusion suspect.

Jay

 

[Brian Hall]

Brian,

There was also a study by Dr. Andrew Stamper at Disney that concluded carbon causes HLLE in tangs (his study actually preceded mine by a month or two).

Carbon use is not equal in its effect - carbon pre filters for RO have no detrimental effect. Pelleted carbon is better than soft angular carbon. Tanks with wet protein skimmers and lots of corals have less of an issue with carbon use. Carbon reactors using non-pelleted carbon are by far the worst scenario. Rinsing carbon well before use may also help.

Can you post a picture of Goldie taken under white light? That might help me ascertain the severity of the case. There is a related syndrome, called epithelial thinning that may not be caused by carbon.

Reversing HLLE is rare, and in virtually all cases, it only happens when it is caught early and the fish is moved to a tank that has never had carbon on it. The "moving fish outside" story I had read about was in Hawaii, and the fish were moved to a new system, so that made the conclusion suspect.

Jay

 

[Brian Hall]

I'm not sure if that last post went through. I don't see it

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That looks more like epithelial thinning, and it isn't very severe. Any chance that this fish was one of the early captive raised ones? They all had this syndrome for some reason.

Jay

 

[Brian Hall]

That looks more like epithelial thinning, and it isn't very severe. Any chance that this fish was one of the early captive raised ones? They all had this syndrome for some reason.

Jay

I'm not sure if it was captive raised. I purchased from Petco. I think most of their stock comes from Live Aquaria. Is there a treatment for epithelial thinning or anything I should do? How will it progress if left alone?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm not sure if it was captive raised. I purchased from Petco. I think most of their stock comes from Live Aquaria. Is there a treatment for epithelial thinning or anything I should do? How will it progress if left alone?

If it is one of the captive ones with this issue, some outgrew it, others didn't. Good diet, lots of food and clean water is really all you can do, and of course, that is just good advice for all our fish!

Jay

 

[Brian Hall]

If it is one of the captive ones with this issue, some outgrew it, others didn't. Good diet, lots of food and clean water is really all you can do, and of course, that is just good advice for all our fish.

I try hard to give all those things to Goldie. All in all she seams to be a pretty happy fish and hopefully will out grow this. Thank you for all your help and advice.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I have seen so many post in this forum about stray voltage, I don't think stray voltage will harm a fish. Electricity will travel the path of least resistance, we can measure it's presence with a voltmeter because the other probe is grounded. Fish in the tank will not feel it because they are not grounded. One other fact is that the conductivity of saltwater is higher than the fish so it doesn't need to go thru the fish.

I think its the stress not the actual voltage.. not sure

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I think its the stress not the actual voltage.. not sure

Stray voltage is a red herring, it has never been scientifically correlated to any aquarium issues except human safety issues if the tank doesn’t have a GFI circuit. A lot of what people measure is induced voltage from pumps.
Jay

 

[TheDuude]

That looks more like epithelial thinning, and it isn't very severe. Any chance that this fish was one of the early captive raised ones? They all had this syndrome for some reason.

Jay

This seems to still be a potential for CB yellows. I have a Biota CB YT purchased from LA about 10 months ago. Was tiny when received and already showed signs of HLLE or epithelial thinning although I believe it is HLLE as it was down his lateral line and around his eyes.

He has been growing and doing great otherwise. I have been feeding a good diet and am seeing some slight improvement. He only shows signs now around his eyes and down his nose a bit.