Scale back or quit?

[HarperFish]

I think my husband and I are both tired of the frustration that comes with a reef tank. It is a huge burden time-wise and there are the constant battles. We have not had it as bad as many with our battles, but that does not change the fact that we are starting to hate the hobby. We currently have 3 emerald crabs working on the massive bubble algae outbreak. Even though we lost all three euphyllia in a week, back several months ago we kept working on it. Three weeks ago we bought 4 beautiful corals from the LFS and put them all by themselves in a quarantine tank. One has a little bit of bubble algae, and today I saw an aiptaisia on the scoly. Really! a $300 stupid coral and it has aiptasia. I have NO aiptasia in my main tank, so thank goodness I put this in quarantine. But this is just kind of the straw that is breaking the camel's back. We test phosphates and alkalinity pretty much every day trying to keep the parameters stable (sick of that for sure). Today after the discovery of the aiptasia, we started talking about what would happen if we went to a fish only tank (no corals). That would stop the daily testing. Since we have all of the fish the tank can support, we would not be adding anything else. We have a refugium in the sump to help with phosphate and nitrate export. Would it be an easier (and possibly for us - more enjoyable) experience to go fish only, or would that bring another set of problems with no corals in the tank? Our tank is a RedSea E170 with sump. We have 2 black ice clowns, two zebra barred dart fish, two banghai cardinals, 1 yellow watchman goby, 1 tailspot blenny, 1 royal gramma, 3 emerald crabs, 2 blue legged hermits, and an assortment of nassarius and cerith snails and 3 Mexican turbo snails. We do not have much in the way of corals. We have 4 Acan Lords (micromussa), 1 pitiful head of a neon candy cane, 1 sunset montipora that has finally started to grow onto the rock, and 1 lobophyllia in our main tank. The QT has the four new corals that may be the end of our coral career: a scoly, two trachys, and a rodactis mushroom (three of the four are beautiful - one trachy is struggling). If we go fish only, how do we get rid of the corals? Or should we get rid of the whole thing? And how do we do that? Help please.

 

[Tamberav]

I am pregnant and going to scale back. I am removing a bunch of LPS and SPS from my main tank and filling in with softies instead. My tank is actually already low maintenance but I know it's going to get totally neglected. There are soft coral tanks out there running on little and some no water changes and you certainly don't need to sit around testing every day. They also don't seem to just up and die from brown jelly or RTN and so on. They can be really beautiful as well with Mike C's softy tank being an inspiration to all. You need to do what is enjoyable for you and there are many different paths in this hobby.

Many examples on google image

 

[Goaway]

A full tank shot might help people give you some ideas on how to fix things, I am no good at that. I assume the tank is up and running for a year now?

Do you run an RO/DI?

 

[HarperFish]

A full tank shot might help people give you some ideas on how to fix things, I am no good at that. I assume the tank is up and running for a year now?

Do you run an RO/DI?

The tank has gone to bed - I will take a picture tomorrow. I do run RO/DI - spent 4 hours making water this morning - have to do that every 3 weeks. The tank will be a year old next month.

 

[HarperFish]

I am pregnant and going to scale back. I am removing a bunch of LPS and SPS from my main tank and filling in with softies instead. My tank is actually already low maintenance but I know it's going to get totally neglected. There are soft coral tanks out there running on little and some no water changes and you certainly don't need to sit around testing every day. They also don't seem to just up and die from brown jelly or RTN and so on. They can be really beautiful as well with Mike C's softy tank being an inspiration to all. You need to do what is enjoyable for you and there are many different paths in this hobby.

Many examples on google image

What are you doing with the corals? As in - how do you get rid of them? Also - on softies, are there the same issues of pests. Since I have fish, won't I still need to keep up with water changes?

 

[Bigdaddy05]

I hear everything ur saying and feel ur struggle as well! Iv recently started thinking I'm gonna scale back coral to just simple softy's and fish! Alot easier and cheaper!

 

[Tired]

You can try to sell any reasonably healthy corals on the sale forum here, or give them to a LFS.

That said, my advice is to just stop testing. Feed the fish, keep salinity up. Test maybe once a week, maybe less often. You only have a few corals, so you shouldn't be losing skeleton-related elements at any high rate. Phosphate increases gradually as fish give off waste, and really isn't a concern as long as it's not sky-high or zero. Alk shouldn't be changing much either. If you only have a few corals, all you need to do is make sure salinity is stable and nutrients aren't zero, regular water changes will handle the skeleton elements just fine.

 

[HarperFish]

I hear everything ur saying and feel ur struggle as well! Iv recently started thinking I'm gonna scale back coral to just simple softy's and fish! Alot easier and cheaper!

You can try to sell any reasonably healthy corals on the sale forum here, or give them to a LFS.

That said, my advice is to just stop testing. Feed the fish, keep salinity up. Test maybe once a week, maybe less often. You only have a few corals, so you shouldn't be losing skeleton-related elements at any high rate. Phosphate increases gradually as fish give off waste, and really isn't a concern as long as it's not sky-high or zero. Alk shouldn't be changing much either. If you only have a few corals, all you need to do is make sure salinity is stable and nutrients aren't zero, regular water changes will handle the skeleton elements just fine.

Our phosphorous numbers have not stabilized. After I feed corals, in the QT, it will spike to 50 ppb. In the display it will range from 20 to 30 ppb after coral feeding night. I use tropic marin carbon dosing - bacto balance. But when it goes up, I will use their Elim NP and when it approaches 5 ppb, I switch to plus NP. I also dose Tropic Marin All For Reef each day to keep the alkalinity between 8.8 and 9. My calcium sits around 450 and magnesium at 1300. If I quit testing and just use the bacto balance and all for reef every day, I am guessing it will stabilize? Is the approach one of "time to walk away from the constant testing and trust the water changes"? I know we do not enjoy ugly - our tank looks pretty - except for the bubble algae which is annoying. We have not had to fight dynos or cyano and I know there is fear that some of that could happen if we don't test? If the corals don't make it, then it would eventually be a FOWLR tank. I am guessing though that the worry of dynos, cyano, bubble algae, bryopsis and aiptaisa are still there. But adding no new corals means no new outbreaks of the last three - just working on getting rid of the bubble algae, and the one aiptaisia stalk in the qt.

 

[Ulee]

Hey don't quit. Your tank is quite modest and every fish and coral on your red sea sounds well balanced, with the new corals. You might be testing more than u need. Keep an eye on alk. and salinity. Trachy and scoly rather similar to Acan in care level, make sure to feed it's important to get good specimens to begin with so no problems later. You didn't mention how much flow u had but plenty of flow always a good idea , remove as much bubble algae by hand as u can.

 

[vtecintegra]

Make it a softy tank. Xenia, gsp, zoas, toad stools. Test once a week. Water change once a month. That would take some of the headache out of it. I've joked a few times of just doing the whole tank in gsp. This is a hobby that's not easy.

 

[Tired]

50ppb is 0.05ppm, which is a perfectly reasonable phosphate number. You want at least 0.03ppm phosphate, and generally not over 1ppm. Unless your phosphate is zero, or over 1ppm, ignore it. Completely ignore it, do not touch it. A stocked tank with well-fed fish should generally maintain fine phosphate levels on its own, unless you have loads of hungry soft corals.

What does the alk do if you don't do anything to it? It's normal for alk to change somewhat throughout the day.

In short: yes, I would walk away from the testing. Test salinity every couple days or so, and don't touch anything else, except maybe nutrient tests once a week so you'll know when it's time to do a water change.

Toss the Bacto Balance. Just maintain a reasonable nutrient level and you won't need it. 0.03ppm or more phosphate, 5ppm or more nitrate. If you have mature rock and keep your nutrient levels reasonable, you shouldn't have to deal with most pest algae. Cyano and diatoms like nutrient issues, unstable/immature tanks, and free space with no competition, and dinos like super low nutrients with no competition.

For the aiptasia, just pull the frag out of the water, wait for the coral to retract away from it and the aiptasia to shrink up, and put a drop of liquid superglue over the aiptasia. That'll kill it, no problem. One aiptasia isn't a big deal at all. It's when you get a load all over the tank that they start to be a problem.

Basically, do the level of maintenance you'd like to do, and see what corals do well in that amount of care. You should be able to keep some softies and a few hardy LPS, maybe even a montipora or two.

 

[mdb_talon]

Personally I would say just stop stressing on the testing and I can think of no good reason to test daily for anything unless you are trying to dial in a dosing amount.

I know for me my enjoyment of the tanks (and the tanks health) increased significantly when i stopped trying so hard to keep it stable(which was actually just doing the opposite). Periodic water changes and periodic testing to make sure numbers dont get too crazy. I have a lot of sps now so I keep a close eye on alk at times(but again that is just to adjust the doser as needed then back to letting it be).

Most corals can survive and in many cases thrive at nutrient levels much higher than you are letting yourself stress about.

 

[Nick Steele]

IMO make the tank how you want it while being reasonable. Lps and softies can do well with very little while sps take a lot of work.

I test once a week if I have time but mostly only twice a month. I’ve dabbled in sps but no luck so I’m stepping back and just sticking with lps and softies now until we move next year. I might even forgo testing unless I see an issue with corals but I’ve had my hammers and acans live through huge alk swings (+2dkh In a week) Dino’s and cyano.

Here’s a full tank shot of my tank

 

[Tamberav]

What are you doing with the corals? As in - how do you get rid of them? Also - on softies, are there the same issues of pests. Since I have fish, won't I still need to keep up with water changes?

Softies like a bit of nutrients and they actually suck them down as well.

I can just sell the corals on a local face book or trade them in to LFS for credits.

Obviously this is an extreme example but no water changes or skimmer in 23 years (this is from 2017). Kind of neat. Probably less work than FOWLR once mature since the corals suck down nutrients

A tank is as complicated or as easy as you make it. He has some pest nem's but doesn't seem concerned and the soft corals don't seem concerned either!

 

[Tired]

The phosphate levels you're describing are actually about minimum for a healthy tank. Some people run lower, but it's not a good idea in the majority of systems. You want nutrients present.

 

[LittleFidel]

Sell your reef and buy a cactus instead.

 

[Rmckoy]

50ppb is 0.05ppm, which is a perfectly reasonable phosphate number. You want at least 0.03ppm phosphate, and generally not over 1ppm. Unless your phosphate is zero, or over 1ppm, ignore it. Completely ignore it, do not touch it. A stocked tank with well-fed fish should generally maintain fine phosphate levels on its own, unless you have loads of hungry soft corals.

What does the alk do if you don't do anything to it? It's normal for alk to change somewhat throughout the day.

In short: yes, I would walk away from the testing. Test salinity every couple days or so, and don't touch anything else, except maybe nutrient tests once a week so you'll know when it's time to do a water change.

Toss the Bacto Balance. Just maintain a reasonable nutrient level and you won't need it. 0.03ppm or more phosphate, 5ppm or more nitrate. If you have mature rock and keep your nutrient levels reasonable, you shouldn't have to deal with most pest algae. Cyano and diatoms like nutrient issues, unstable/immature tanks, and free space with no competition, and dinos like super low nutrients with no competition.

For the aiptasia, just pull the frag out of the water, wait for the coral to retract away from it and the aiptasia to shrink up, and put a drop of liquid superglue over the aiptasia. That'll kill it, no problem. One aiptasia isn't a big deal at all. It's when you get a load all over the tank that they start to be a problem.

Basically, do the level of maintenance you'd like to do, and see what corals do well in that amount of care. You should be able to keep some softies and a few hardy LPS, maybe even a montipora or two.

50ppb phosphorus is 0.153 ppm phosphates .

as for the aptasia . Mix a little kalk paste and cover the aptasia with it .
it will be gone .
As for testing . Depending on how often you are doing water changes and the volume changed . I would assume a water change routine alone Will keep all parameters in check .
If you notice nitrates and phosphates are still climbing increase they volume or how frequent you perform water changes .
Water
Changes alone have little effect on phosphates that being said .
a gfo reactor or cheato in the sump will take care of it .
IME Adding gfo or cheato will drop phosphates and nitrates fast .
keep a eye on them .

 

[Tired]

How are you getting that conversion? Parts per billion to parts per million is a matter of decimals.

Still, 0.15ppm phosphate is high, but entirely workable for a lot of corals, particularly if they're acclimated slowly.

 

[Rmckoy]

How are you getting that conversion? Parts per billion to parts per million is a matter of decimals.

Still, 0.15ppm phosphate is high, but entirely workable for a lot of corals, particularly if they're acclimated slowly.

https://www.hannainst.com/hubfs/006-finished-content/Aquarium/phosphorus-to-phosphate-conversion-table--hanna-instruments.pdf

The Hanna phosphorus checker measures in ppb
Converted to ppm phosphates .
above is a chart I use from Hanna .

 

[Miami Reef]

For the aiptasia: it’s basically a guarantee that you’ll have it. Even if you QT everything.

For the bubble algae: use vibrant per label instructions.

For testing: once a week is more than enough for alkalinity once it’s stable. I haven’t tested my alk in about 3 weeks.

If you want to go FOWLR, that is no problem at all. I personally really enjoy corals. Having my tank fallow for 3 months wouldn’t be as bad if I didn’t have any corals in there.