Seachem Matrix + low flow through reactor = high nitrates?

[rocknut]

How long has the matrix been in your system? I run siporax, which is the same idea, although it's in my sump and not through a reactor. It's taken about 3 month's time to start showing the effects of it.

When you did your 40% water change, what was the effect on the nitrates? Did they drop and then climb again? Or did it just cut it in half?

The Matrix has been in the tank just shy of two months. Three months is what I had heard as well, to start seeing positive effects. Didn't think the Matrix would be pulling NO3 down yet, but was concerned that it might be bumping it up?

Regarding the water changes, the tough part is that the Salifert test kit goes from 50 at one color, up to 100 at the next color, so even after the change the color was basically still somewhere between 50 and 100...might have been 90 before, and 60 after?

Anyway, after doing some more reading, I think that I will start dosing some vinegar, as was suggested earlier in this thread. I have an apex DOS head that isn't being used, and will plan to use this to slowly dose throughout the day. Also plan to get some Brightwell MB7 to dose alongside the vinegar to hopefully prevent any cyano issues. Considered doing Aquaforest, or Zeovit, but neither system seems compatible with Kalkwasser - so vinegar it is.

 

[Fenzinna]

The Matrix has been in the tank just shy of two months. Three months is what I had heard as well, to start seeing positive effects. Didn't think the Matrix would be pulling NO3 down yet, but was concerned that it might be bumping it up?

Regarding the water changes, the tough part is that the Salifert test kit goes from 50 at one color, up to 100 at the next color, so even after the change the color was basically still somewhere between 50 and 100...might have been 90 before, and 60 after?

Anyway, after doing some more reading, I think that I will start dosing some vinegar, as was suggested earlier in this thread. I have an apex DOS head that isn't being used, and will plan to use this to slowly dose throughout the day. Also plan to get some Brightwell MB7 to dose alongside the vinegar to hopefully prevent any cyano issues. Considered doing Aquaforest, or Zeovit, but neither system seems compatible with Kalkwasser - so vinegar it is.

I would try a few more large water changes over the course of a week and see how that effects the tank. Carbon is popular but you probably don't need it.

 

[rocknut]

I would try a few more large water changes over the course of a week and see how that effects the tank. Carbon is popular but you probably don't need it.

Hi Fenzinna, my goal when I rebooted my tank three months ago was to do just what you suggested: stick to live rock, strong flow, good skimmer, and water changes. However, I feel like I have learned a few things from this thread, in particular several of Twilliard and Gary's posts from earlier in the thread. For example:

Denitrifying bacteria reduces amonia to no3
The bacteria that needs a good carbon source consumes no3
So we are talking about two different bacterium that needs two different "foods"
You have plenty of area in your tank for bacteria to populate without the use of matrix based on rock, substrate and volume.
For instance I dose vinegar to "feed" my no3 bacteria.

So, I'm hoping that adding a carbon source will help me kickstart the necessary bacteria I need to knock this NO3 down.

With this in mind, I am planning to either start dosing vinegar, or NoPox. Also, plan to add MB7 and Prodibio Biodigest on alternating weeks. I'll report back on how this progresses, and of course welcome any additional suggestions and/or recommendations regarding choosing either vinegar vs NoPox.

 

[Fenzinna]

Hi Fenzinna, my goal when I rebooted my tank three months ago was to do just what you suggested: stick to live rock, strong flow, good skimmer, and water changes. However, I feel like I have learned a few things from this thread, in particular several of Twilliard and Gary's posts from earlier in the thread. For example:





So, I'm hoping that adding a carbon source will help me kickstart the necessary bacteria I need to knock this NO3 down.

With this in mind, I am planning to either start dosing vinegar, or NoPox. Also, plan to add MB7 and Prodibio Biodigest on alternating weeks. I'll report back on how this progresses, and of course welcome any additional suggestions and/or recommendations regarding choosing either vinegar vs NoPox.

I do BioDigest and I'm quite happy with the results. Have your nitrates always been this high?

Good luck with the carbon dosing. Just take it slow if you do it.

 

[rocknut]

I do BioDigest and I'm quite happy with the results. Have your nitrates always been this high?

Good luck with the carbon dosing. Just take it slow if you do it.

Yes, NO3 has been high since nearly the beginning of my reboot three months ago, and fairly high before that. I have racked my brain trying to find a source, but have come up empty. Here is a video I took of the tank that shows the sump layout, filtration, etc:

 

[rocknut]

Originally thought that detritus was accumulating in the big external overflow, but even after siphoning it totally out, didn't make any difference with the NO3.

 

[Fenzinna]

I think you need to figure out if they're going up or just staying high.

And the easiest way to do that is to hit the tank with three 40% water changes back to back.

Then try and get a test lower than 50ppm and test again in a week and see if they're higher.

If the nitrates are going up you have a problem. But if you rebooted, recycled, and had huge nitrate bump but never brought them down. You may just be seeing high residual from your cycle.

That's the reason I did a 100% water change after I cycled my live rock.

 

[rocknut]

Just wanted to post a quick follow up. I did email Seachem directly about flow rate, and detritus build up, and received this response that I found very helpful:

"Thank you for your email. There is no ideal flow rate for the Matrix as it will function as designed at any flow. If the flow is very slow and detritus is able to settle on the media, this could be of concern as detritus or other matter can clog the pores of the media, which limits the amount of available surface area for beneficial bacteria growth. That said, we have Matrix in sumps here in our offices in several large aquariums that have been going strong in these tanks for many years without being removed or cleaned. As long as water is flowing over and through the media, it will work to house bacteria that will consume ammonia, nitrite and nitrate."

Additionally, I found several other posts on another forum that stated that this media needs about three months to really start processing nutrients. I am about 3 weeks shy of this, so am hopeful that I will start to see more of an impact regarding NO3 from this media.

With this in mind, here is my plan going forward:
I am going to put more Matrix online using a larger reactor (possibly 8 liters which is serious overkill, I know). Based on the very helpful information I received in this thread I am going to start doing some carbon dosing (either Red Sea Nopox, or vinegar) using my dosing pump, and will dose Prodibio Biodigest, and Brightwell MB7 on alternate weeks. Based on the assumption that my tank is very carbon limited, I'm hoping this will drop my NO3 over time. Also hoping that having the large amount of Matrix, coupled with the live rock in my tank, eventually I can ramp the carbon dosing way down, or eliminate it all together.

Thanks again to everyone the read and responded to this thread! I will post back at some point with a progress report.

 

[MasterBacon]

Just wanted to post a quick follow up. I did email Seachem directly about flow rate, and detritus build up, and received this response that I found very helpful:

"Thank you for your email. There is no ideal flow rate for the Matrix as it will function as designed at any flow. If the flow is very slow and detritus is able to settle on the media, this could be of concern as detritus or other matter can clog the pores of the media, which limits the amount of available surface area for beneficial bacteria growth. That said, we have Matrix in sumps here in our offices in several large aquariums that have been going strong in these tanks for many years without being removed or cleaned. As long as water is flowing over and through the media, it will work to house bacteria that will consume ammonia, nitrite and nitrate."

Additionally, I found several other posts on another forum that stated that this media needs about three months to really start processing nutrients. I am about 3 weeks shy of this, so am hopeful that I will start to see more of an impact regarding NO3 from this media.

With this in mind, here is my plan going forward:
I am going to put more Matrix online using a larger reactor (possibly 8 liters which is serious overkill, I know). Based on the very helpful information I received in this thread I am going to start doing some carbon dosing (either Red Sea Nopox, or vinegar) using my dosing pump, and will dose Prodibio Biodigest, and Brightwell MB7 on alternate weeks. Based on the assumption that my tank is very carbon limited, I'm hoping this will drop my NO3 over time. Also hoping that having the large amount of Matrix, coupled with the live rock in my tank, eventually I can ramp the carbon dosing way down, or eliminate it all together.

Thanks again to everyone the read and responded to this thread! I will post back at some point with a progress report.

How was your experience with matrix after months?

 

[rocknut]

How was your experience with matrix after months?

Well, not quite sure what to make of my results, but here is the latest:

I bought a custom GeoReef 8 liter reactor and put it online at the end of July, moving all of my Matrix into this reactor. So at this point I have had Seachem media in the tank, either sitting in a container in the sump, or in a reactor for about six months (fluidized in a reactor for 3+ months), I have been dosing Red Sea NoPoX for three months, and continue to skim hard and my NO3 is currently at....8. This is after several 25% water changes as it had been up to 16.

One thing I did notice is that my PO4 zeroed out early on, so I have been dosing Brightwell Neophos on and off trying to keep some phosphates in the water, so that the carbon dosing can keep working. Kind of lost why my NO3 have remained so high, honestly. A few weeks ago when my NO3 was holding at 8 I decided I would see what happened when I continued carbon dosing, but didn't do a water change for two weeks: well, NO3 bumped up to 16. Keeping in mind that I only have three fish in my 150 gallon tank. I also replace both of my filter socks every day, have 150 pounds of good live rock, have a large skimmer, AND have the 8 liters of Seachem Matrix. Would definitely love to get some thoughts/opinions because I would think that with all my filtration, and smaller bioload, I should be able to keep a lower NO3 number. In spite of the filtration methods described above, seems like water changes are the ONLY thing that has any affect on the NO3 levels in the tank.

 

[Roggio]

Any updates? I'm having the same issue. Are you still running GFO? It seems like you're aware that phosphates bottoming out will make nitrates rise.

 

[Bigzman]

Any updates.

 

[rocknut]

So, I totally pulled the reactor and all Seachem media last number. I jokingly refer to this as my failed “detritus reactor” project, as this reactor was so completely jammed with detritus, it was almost funny (and pretty disgusting). Honestly, I think to run this successfully, you need to have some SERIOUS pre-filtration in place.

Ultimately, I went ahead and bought one of the newer H380 Kessil red grow lights (thing is a BEAST), and put that over some Chaeto in my sump. After about three weeks I had zero PO4 and NO3 for like the first time ever. After that, the Chaeto started to die back, but then the light started growing red hair algae on the dieing Chaeto, which I harvest each week. After six months, still have zero NO3 and PO4, and stopped dosing any carbon source after the first month. I’m honestly pretty amazed by this light, after trying to grow macro several times in the past, with really mixed results.

If anyone wants to give the Matrix a shot, I have the big Geo reactor and all the Matrix media in the garage, for sale.

 

[Roggio]

I still use the media successfully. I don’t use mine in a reactor however.

I also use a lot of marinepure. I just got my Triton test back and my Al is off the charts. There’s no question that’s dumped a ton of Al in there. Even with months of water changes it’s still extremely high. I may have to pull it all. Despite perfect parameters my coral is dying.